Is it bad to oil a timber frame?

[Zebra]

I have a timber framed house some 300 or so years old. Would it be OK to treat the timber frame with teak oil or linseed oil?

I've done some research that suggests that breathable walls work best when the most vapour permeable layers are on the outside, and the inner layers need to be about five times as vapour resistive, although still vapour permeable. I can post the link if anyone's interested.

I am planning to expose the larger beams on the inside, but use perhaps a heavier duty plasterboard to improve acoustic performance of the wall. But this would mean that the most vapour permeable part of the wall would be the exposed frame, so any moisture travelling outward through the wall could get funneled through the most vapour permeable bit i.e. the frame.

Unless I made it less vapour permeable?

I was involved in building a green oak framed building a couple of years ago, and we slathered it in teak oil. Would this be ok to treat the beams I'm planning to expose with teak oil?

 

[middi]

Teak or linseed oil will darken the wood.
To keep the wood in it's natural, rich, colour you would be better off using bee's wax thinned down with white spirit for easy application with a brush. Also bee's wax is not a dust attractant as " sticky" oils are.
I am confused about the bit regarding the inner timber stud surface been less permeable to aid either the absobing of moisture or the sound travel, whatever you " brush" them with it will make no difference to sound travel.
As to making the studs less permeable to moisture, the test of time has tought us that the inner surface of oak beams suffer no ill ( apart from woodworm attack in the sapwood) when totally exposed within or without a building.
The reason we cover studs is for personal reasons dictated by contemporary taste. The main reasons why we cover them is to hide them, colour them, disguise them or ease to clean them. If the studs could talk back when we try to interfere they would tell us to p*$$ off and leave them alone

Middi

 

[skier-hughes]

I've used high quality linseed oil on all of my timber and used right, very thin, several layers it is not sticky and does not attract or hold dust.
Of course, the fact that the timbers are not as smooth as a baby's b** does mean that dust adn dirt gets caught in the shakes etc.

Oiling the wood does indeed darken it, by my experience, the older the wood the darker it darkens it

 

[Zebra]

I am confused about the bit regarding the inner timber stud surface been less permeable to aid either the absobing of moisture or the sound travel, whatever you " brush" them with it will make no difference to sound travel.
Middi

I meant that the heavier plasterboard was to prevent sound, not the oil on the timber. Sorry, did I not word that well?
I don't think it's oak though. It's a very small cottage so they probably would have used a cheaper timber. It's very dark already, not the silvery colour that oak goes, and it doesn't smell like oak....

Of course, the fact that the timbers are not as smooth as a baby's b** does mean that dust adn dirt gets caught in the shakes etc. Oiling the wood does indeed darken it, by my experience, the older the wood the darker it darkens it

Yes, it's very rough, and would attract dust. And as I said it's already very dark.

Thanks for your answers both.

 

[robgil]

Why would you oil timbers/beams in the first place? Ive thought about oil or wax and then I figured they have lasted this long without it , why start now.

 

[Penners]

You could oil the the beams if that's what you really want to do. But I agree with Middi that wax is a better, visually "softer" finish.

But, as Rob says, it's not vital to put any finish on them at all. They'll still look lovely.

 

[Zebra]

It's not for appearances sake. Sorry if this is all quite complicated, but I'm trying to design a breathable wall construction for an old timber frame house. I started another thread "17th Century Timber Frame House - breathability" on the subject. The buildings inspector has said I can go ahead without a building notice, and the conservation officer has no objection. So I'm still on my own as to how to do it.
Middi kindly suggested a system with ply and celotex on the outside, but another user suggested it should be a fully breathable wall design. So without rejecting either idea I'm researching breathable wall systems, and have done some reading on the Green Building Forum (similar to this but for new build eco-houses) on how they design breathable walls, and came across a lot of ideas. If interested see:
http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4579&page=1
Now, I'm not trying to push a hypothesis, or argue a point at all. I know very little and I'm grateful for all suggestions, in fact I'm getting a bit bogged down in all this research. My only reason for this thread, forgive me, is my having read that a breathable construction, which allows the free passage of seasonal flows of atmospheric water vapour both into and out of the wall, can end up funnelling all the water vapour through the most permeable parts of the construction, i.e. the exposed timber beams, because the insulation inbetween them is impermeable. The reason I'm wondering about oiling my beams is because it would make them less vapour permeable! Then if I had a type of insulation between the studs that was more permeable, like hemp or wood fibre or something, the water vapour would pass through the breathable wall rather than through the beams! Does that make any sense? Sorry if this thread is a bit crazy, I think I'm going crazy trying to figure this all out!

 

[robgil]

I think you might be looking into this a bit too deeply. In most instances moisture doesn't have to pass through the entire wall , It just has to be able to escape should it enter into the wall somehow, should that be a crack in the render or up from the ground. It is critical that should the timbers become damp they can dry back out again.
If it were me I would be looking into sheeps wool or a similar insulating material.

 

[biffvernon]

The timber beams themselves are not very vapour permeable. For sure water vapour will pass through wood, but only rather slowly. It may cope with seasonal flows, transferring small volumes of water over a timescale of months but not coping with the sudden flows associated with changes in the weather, cooking, washing and suchlike. This is where you need the large surface areas between the beams to be vapour permeable.

Anyway, adding linseed oil to beams will not affect their vapour permeability. Do this only if you want them to look different.

 

[Penners]

I think you might be looking into this a bit too deeply.

I heartily agree. I hope this doesn't sound patronising, but I think you've got yourself a bit obsessive about this. So long as you use breathable materials wherever possible in your house works, the building will be fine. And whether you oil, wax or do nothing to your beams isn't going to make any appreciable difference to the breathability of the structure.

 

[Zebra]

Thanks guys. I'm just out of my depth, and wanting so much to get it right...

 

[AMc]

You're barking up the right tree being careful and researching thoroughly. In some cases doing nothing will allow you to mull over the situation and come up with a better solution to a problem than going all out to get it done. Most of the mistakes I've made with my renovation have been related to being pressed into making decisions I wasn't completely clear on and regretting at my leisure.

A carpenter friend of mine pointed out its much easier to saw off more wood later than to saw wood back on again

 

[Penners]

In some cases doing nothing will allow you to mull over the situation and come up with a better solution to a problem than going all out to get it done.

Quite right - and don't forget that assessment time requires copious quantities of tea and Kit-Kats, plus (if possible) a shovel to lean on.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, spot on (both the above) - with the added benefit that after a suitably leisurely period of pondering, the original 'problem' may not seem quite so bad anyway and has magically become perfectly acceptable to live with.*






* Though this approach is not recommended for serious structural faults of course.

 

[skier-hughes]

Yes, spot on (both the above) - with the added benefit that after a suitably leisurely period of pondering, the original 'problem' may not seem quite so bad anyway and has magically become perfectly acceptable to live with.*






* Though this approach is not recommended for serious structural faults of course.

Or for those with wives who read PP!!

 

[Zebra]

Yes thanks guys. I know you're right, and in fact have been lately revising my schedule and looking at ways to take the pressure off. I bought the place in September, and spent the winter filling skip after skip with muck and goo and cement render and centuries of mouse nests. Having been thinking that the summer would see it all done, including the two replacement extensions, I am now realising that I am not even halfway to halfway there, still waiting for a decision from planning, and still living with (patient) parent, working full time, and going to the house in the evenings I'm only getting bits done, it is all not happening as fast as I had thought, hence my feeling under pressure to push on and make decisions that I'm not yet sure of. So I've revised that plan now, and am looking on freecycle for a secondhand bathroom, will plumb it in any old how for now (the house currently has one tap...), am cleaning to make it habitable, and planning now to get some old furniture and move in anyway just as soon as I can. Then hoping to spend long evenings leaning on that shovel!

 

[skier-hughes]

Where are you?
I have just taken out my old bathroom suite, large sink, bidet, toilet which needs the metal piece to connect the lever to the gubbins inside (had to pinch it as the housekeeper broke the downastairs one!) and a whirlpool bath!!!!!!!

Ok, sounds brill, it's just a whiskey colour........

 

[Penners]

thinking that the summer would see it all done

We've all been there, Zebra! "Four years into a two-year project" is a well-worn phrase on PPUK!

May I just presume to offer a couple of words of (probably un-necessary) counsel? Don't let your realisation that the project is going to take much longer than you thought push you into doing lash-up, temporary jobs that you'll "come back and do properly later". Do it right the first time. This will (a) save you time in the long run, and (b) give you stage-by-stage "little victories" when you can stand back, look at the your work and say to yourself, "That's a job well done - and permanently done".

You'll need those cheering moments of self-congratulation to sustain you through the long project.

 

[Feltwell]

planning now to get some old furniture and move in anyway just as soon as I can.

Freecycle and Freegle can be good ways to pick up furniture if you're not fussy what it looks like and just want it to serve a function. An acquaintance of mine has managed to furnish his rented house completely from there for free, following a very messy marriage split-up where he was left with nothing.

As he gets himself on his feet and replaces items he puts the old stuff back on the same service for others.

 

[AMc]

I'm with Penners here - if you know where the bathroom is and how it's laid out then I would strongly suggest you get the right stuff and fit it well 1st time.
Coming back to things that work gets harder and harder and redoing jobs you've done once is soul destroying.
Just because you aren't paying for your own time doesn't mean you shouldn't value it. I've done a number of jobs "the hard way" because it was cheaper and to be honest I don't think the few quid saved made much difference in the overall scheme of the project.

Of course if you need a temporary bathroom or fancy having a practice first then there is an argument for the freecycle route