How old is this property??

[somersethouse]

Hi Everyone,

We are in the process of buying a period property in Shropshire and wondered if anyone could give us an opinion on how old the house might be? The current owner is not sure although she has explained that it was once a larger house that has now been divided into three 'terraced' properties. The property we are buying is the one on the right (the doorway has been converted from the opening through which the horses and carts would have entered the back of the property before it was converted). The conversion seems to have been done a long time ago as the door looks very old (Victorian?) as do the tiles in the hallway.

I just wondered if anyone was able to identify how old the property might be based on the facade?

Thanks in advance...
Matt & Karla

 

[JoceAndChris]

It's a lovely house! Georgian - 1810? But I'm really not an expert, sure someone will be along presently with a better idea!

 

[ilona73]

OOOO how exciting!!!
I hope everything goes smoothly for you unlike us lol!
It looks georgian to me too.... like joce says someone will be around to help more... but good luck it looks like an interesting property!

 

[LadyArowana]

You should be able to get more clues when your legal team does the relevant searches, the deeds for your house may only go back to the point of subdivision, but prior to there should be information on the land registry for the entire property. You will also be able to search ( for a small fee in some cases ) some of the old census records for information on who was living in the house. Good luck with your purchase, I hope all goes smoothly.

 

[somersethouse]

Thanks Everyone! As you can perhaps tell - we are completely new to this and are very excited (just hoping that the sale all goes through okay). We can't wait to get in there and start to sympatehically restore it to it's former glory!

Any further views on the age would be most welcome... ;-)

 

[JohnB]

but prior to there should be information on the land registry for the entire property

Do the Land Registry still keep that information? As far as I know they only have the title map and details of the previous transfer for my house. All I've got is a copy of part of the deeds borrowed from my neighbour, who bought a building plot off a previous owner.

 

[ilona73]

but prior to there should be information on the land registry for the entire property

Do the Land Registry still keep that information? As far as I know they only have the title map and details of the previous transfer for my house. All I've got is a copy of part of the deeds borrowed from my neighbour, who bought a building plot off a previous owner.

Not too sure how far you can go back through land registry... i do know you can buy old copies of previous registries if they are available for sale but they aren't always it depends on your property. My house dates back to 1687 .. and we are only the third family to have owned it since it was built .
We currently have the local family history society crawling all over the place trying to research as much fro us as they can.. maybe you can do the same? We have a meeting with someone who actually lived in our house in about 3 weeks time he is a lovely old chap in his 90's.. his family owned the house second after the molyneaux family who had this place built.. so exciting times are a head!
good luck !!

 

[MdB]

Land Registry is a new thing (I think). The land registry record for our house goes back the grand total of 4 years (to when we bought the house). Only one of our eight neighbours properties is on the registry as they haven't changed hands in the last 10(?) years when it became compulsory to register in Cornwall.

 

[Flyfisher]

MdB's right about compulsory registration at Land Registry being relatively recent, which is why banks would previously retain the deeds for their mortgage security. With mortgages now being recorded at LR, the physical deeds are no longer required for this purpose and they are being returned to owners, which will almost inevitably mean many physical records being lost.

I would certainly check with LR, just in case, but I would also ask the vendors about the original deeds.

 

[AMc]

With mortgages now being recorded at LR, the physical deeds are no longer required for this purpose and they are being returned to owners, which will almost inevitably mean many physical records being lost.

Our building society 'dematerialised' our deeds on the last house part way through the ownership. They claimed to have sent them to our house but they didn't turn up when we looked before moving and I suspect we never got them at all. They weren't even sent recorded delivery. As I never saw them I don't know what was lost but it was still very irritating as it held up the sale momentarily until the buyers lender agreed to the land registry entry as being definitive without the deeds.

Unfortunately our purchase solicitor was so disagreeable that we declined their offer to store our documents - particularly as I'd seen their 'document storage facility' (what I call the basement in boxes on the floor). I guess we should probably lodge them with the firm who did our wills recently but it's tough to get that to the top of the to do list!

 

[MdB]

I wouldn't worry too much about keep any paper copies of deeds yourself if your house has been registered at the land registry. The land registry has all that is necessary for you to prove ownership / get a mortgage / sell the house in the future - (I think, I'm not a lawyer).

The paper version is far more important from a historical point of view and I wish I had more info than the 50 or so years our paper version goes back.

 

[Nigel Watts]

My hunch would be early Victorian (1850-60), assuming the facade is more or less as it was when built. While still classical, the window surrounds have a heaviness about them which suggests post Georgian to me. In London if I saw a window surround like that in Stucco (they are rarely in stone) I would certainly say Victorian.

 

[Moo]

to sympathetically restore it to its former glory!

- starting, of course, with that window on the top floor.

xx M

 

[another_richard]

to sympathetically restore it to its former glory!

- starting, of course, with that window on the top floor.

xx M

Cordon off the street, invite the local paper to cover the news: You smashing the plastic window into pieces so it crashes to the ground.

Then hand out leaflets:
<gordon brown style felt tip pen>
Plastic windows 10 year guarantee cost 10k but will save you 100 pounds per year on your heating bill.

Wooden windows minimum maintenance last 100 years...
</gordon brown style felt tip pen>

If anything, you might highlight the stupidity (IMHO) of replacing wood med plastic.

 

[Flyfisher]

As I never saw them I don't know what was lost but it was still very irritating as it held up the sale momentarily until the buyers lender agreed to the land registry entry as being definitive without the deeds.

That's a bit odd as my understanding is that LR now guarantees legal title. Perhaps your sale was going through while all the changes were taking place. I know of one case where there was an ownership dispute over a small patch of land that had been registered but the plaintiff had deeds showing that he owned the land. Anyone who has looked at old deeds will know that boundaries can be confusing, especially when defined by a hand-drawn coloured crayon that's about 20 feet wide on the map! Anyway, the registered owner prevailed because Land registry is deemed to be definitive in law and the mistake was put down to simple human error. There is, apparently, a process to claim for damages arising from incorrect registrations, but the land itself remains with the registered owner.

So I agree with MdB that personal storage of deeds is not the risk it used to be as they are no longer legal documents (provided the property is registered!) and have no real intrinsic value. They are, however, important historical documents and it's such a shame when such history is lost forever, as in AMc's case.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

I think that it is early Victorian, probably around 1880.

Lovely property, good luck !

 

[Feltwell]

How exciting!

Have you tried the online Shropshire archives catalogue? Try searching on the street name, and the house name if you have any idea what it was originally called, for starters at least.

http://www.shropshire.gov.uk/archives.nsf

A friend found out quite a bit of information from them. A search on my road just revealed details of "slum clearance" in the 1950's!

My local library has a wealth of old maps as well - whilst I have the original deeds and know when my house was built (or at least when the funds to build it were obtained), I could have dated it to within 20 years by the old maps in the library. I spent a happy afternoon there soon after moving in, looking at all the changes that had happened over the years.

 

[Lime]

I think that it is early Victorian, probably around 1880.

?
1880 early victorian?
I don't think so as Victoria became queen 1837.

The house looks Georgian 1830s perhaps but the alteration to the coach entrance looks quite recent.
I say that because of the kerb on the pavement is lowered and the glazing around the front door has a 1970s style.

Is the top floor an early addition?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

It looks like a c.1860s-70s refronting / revamp of an earlier building, done without altering the window positions, just adding heavier surrounds at first (and possibly second) floor level and the projecting bay window on the left. The render possibly done at the same time (certainly the ground floor rustication), possibly later. Difficult to say how much older the underlying building might be without seeing more of it - I would say not earlier than 1770, and it's just possible it's all of the 1870s.

 

[somersethouse]

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies regarding Land Registry, Shropshire Archives, the age of the property and advice on what to do with the new window on the top floor ;-)

Is the top floor an early addition?

Not as far as I am aware (??)

Here are a few more photos that might be of help. The one of the inside of the hall (ex coach entrance) shows, in my opinion, that the door used to be on the other side (based on the layout of the tiles). This would perhaps add weight to your suggestion that the current front door\window arrangement is fairly recent (although the door itself seems old).

I have also included a photo of the period fireplace in one of the upstairs bedroom - it might also point to the age of the property (although I gather this could have been tampered with or added at a later stage).

We really want to try and enhance and re-introduce the period features that have been removed from the property and by determing the age, will have a better chance of doing this properly so all opinions are very welcome. Hopefully we will be able to confirm the age with land registry\archive details.

Thanks Again - Matt