How do I object to planning consent?

[Nemesis]

...or do something very nasty...


News - 15/11/2006 - G&T conversion gets planning


Gardiner & Theobald has been appointed as cost consultant for a £10 million conversion scheme in Bourne Hill, Salisbury.


Architect Stanton Williams has received planning permission to provide a 4,000m² block of offices and public facilities for Salisbury council.


The new build element will run adjacent to an 18th century grade II-listed house which is to be restored and refurbished. A series of natural stone fins 12m high will clad the three-storey building.

http://www.qsweek.com/nav?page=qsweek.news.main&view_resource=6007934


Call-in request refused.

 

[DaveBrigg]

Thanks to all who gave advice, which was very useful when submitting our objection. Just before Christmas we received notification that the application had been turned down. For the benefit of anyone who finds themself in a similar position in the future. part of the reason reads:
"the proposed development will have an adverse impact upon the setting of the adjacent Grade II listed building, by virtue of the loss of the last remaining open space around the building and the close proximity of the proposed dwelling... PPG15 indicates that local authorities should have special regard to the desirability of preserving the setting of listed buildings, because the setting is often an essential part of the building's character...This area of open space is considered to be crucial to the special interest of the farmhouse and forms an important space around the building which informs the character and traditional aspect of this listed building.
The proposed development would also restrict views of the farmhouse from the north approaching the site, which is quite prominent within the streetscene, to the detriment of the wider character of the immediate locality...

Another success for the forum - Cheers

 

[Nemesis]

Well - good news indeed.

However - I don't wish to be a harbinger of doom, but be aware that the owner can take the decision to an inquiry.

Also - in the town near where I live there is currently a similar situation, where a Grade II listed house has had what was in fact its garden (which was an orchard for many years, supplying fruit to be sold in the town) sold off. Several people have submitted plans for housing development there. So far they have been turned down. Such a development is outside the local plan, will seriously affect the open space which is part of the setting of the town as you approach it, its Grade I listed church (mediaeval burgage plots run behind the houses) and this is a conservation area. In order to build on this site a very old wall, which is a feature of the conservation area and as it is actually attched to the listed house I reckon is also listed, needs to be demolished to provide a safe access.

The plot was covered by a number of TPO's too, and the latest owner has simply cut down a number of trees without any consents.

English Heritage has objected strongly to any development there, because of the effect on the setting of the town, the conservation area, the precedent which would be set for other open spaces behind houses, but the local authority classifies this as brownfield land as it was a garden and so also has stated that it can be built on. This is national policy - building on brownfield land. The problems start when brownfield land doesn't comprise derelict factory sites in towns which need regenerating.

The developments so far have been turned down as unsuitable for a variety of reasons, such as lack of play facilities and insufficiently high quality of design.

The local authority has, however, stated that it is not in principle against development there. so it is simply a matter of time before a developer gets through a set of plans which are 'acceptable' to the local authority - even if not to anyone else, including English Heritage, which does not (as with many of us locals) wish to see the site developed at all.

See if you can get TPO's on those trees. It may only be a matter of time before an alternative proposal is put forward.

 

[Tom]

Nemesis, I was under the impression that a listing encompassed all that was within the curtilage of that property, for example, fences, outbuildings, walls, land etc.. How can it be that someone could sell off some land belonging to a listed building, in the first place, and then planning permission be applied for and granted? Wouldn't you need LBC to detach the land in the first place? Isn't that the stage at which objections should be sought? It seems very confusing but you seem to be in a position to explain it Thanks.

Jaqy

 

[Nemesis]

No - see Gareth's post above.

Curtilage is a difficult one, and each situation really has to be taken on merit. There is a body of case law on this too. But it only applies to structures not land, which can be sold off.

 

[Tom]

What a shame! Why do they make us fight so hard for things which need preserving? It's almost immoral!!!

Jaqy

 

[Nemesis]

Structures too can be sold - the house in question has a small coach house with hayloft above it, clearly listed as curtilage - which has been sold separately and given consent for conversion. Given that it's tiny such conversion will require new extensions etc.

What's really sad is that the house and land (empty and growing increasingly derelict for many years - the local authority took enforcement action to have re-roofing done) when finally they came up for sale had an interested buyer in a local man who wanted to repair the house and live in it, and keep a couple of horses on the land.

Instead he was outbid by a developer, who promptly split it all up into three and flogged the parts off separately - buildings and land - for a huge profit.

 

[Nemesis]

PS - before anyone starts to tell me that people need housing - there is already plenty of land zoned for new housing elsewhere which won't affect the setting of the town so severely, and a large number of houses are being built - which IMHO will rather swamp the town but as long as the words 'low cost' are bandied about the local authority falls over itself to say yes, no matter how unfortunate the designs.

 

[Tom]

Nemesis, I don't know how to reply to that...my jaw is on the floor!! What's wrong with people? Can't they see further than their nose-end? These people who are 'supposedly' 'in charge' would really have difficulty organising the proverbial p**s up in a brewery!! It just makes me so angry. Here we are, a bunch of people doing our best, at our own cost, to retain and restore the very fabric of our history while we have a bunch of numpties undoing the same at a faster rate!! AAaarrrrggghhhhh!!! :evil:

Jaqy

 

[Nemesis]

It's called national planning law and guidance ... historic sites and buildings usuallty come last in any consideration.

Developers have deep pockets and a thirst for large profits.

May be of interest:

http://www.hexham-courant.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=449808

 

[Nemesis]

And this, which has been given permission although English Heritage objected strongly:

http://www.hexham-courant.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=449785

The local authority is getting concerned that EH is objecting to so many cruddy plans for the area which our dear Chief Planning Officer seems to find hard to understand:

http://www.hexham-courant.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=449782


Hmmmm.

I'm interested in the part which says until recently the local authority had a 'good relationship' with EH ... not in my experience, they simply ignored sound advice... not sure why suddenly the CPO has become concerned.

I have no doubt the meeting will be to warn EH off...

 

[DaveBrigg]

Thanks for the response Nemesis. The first news report was staggering. A councillor who complained about an endless list of faults with the development, but then said that he was going to support it. Another who felt that rejecting such shoddy plans would send out the wrong message to developers. Who's in charge at the planning department?

I think that this is the third time that the application has been turned down, but of course, the appeal could still come in - the owner has a bit of a reputation as a 'shrewd' businessman. It sounds like our plot is very similar to yours, although maybe smaller. Developers had shown an interest in our house, to convert it into two smaller properties, but they were put off by the terrible damp - one told us the building would need to be virtually demolished. A couple of hours on this forum and we discovered that the cure was actually removing cement from inside, and repairing the roof, gutters and downpipes.

Our conservation officer has been brilliant in helping to object, and he has mentioned TPO's as a last resort. No mention was made officially, for fear that the chainsaws would come out the next morning, before the paperwork was in place. Another option is to apply for the listing to be changed to Grade I. There is still most of the original fabric of the building, and many more internal features that were covered up during the first listing inspection, including some medieval walls. Most interesting for us at the moment is what may be a filled in cellar beneath the stairs. The sand floor is very loose, and just pulling out handfulls of back-fill revealed bits of old plaster, a couple of clay pipe stems and several small voids. I stopped when I got down to my elbow, and will leave it until there is time and expertise enough to do the job properly.

We too don't suffer from a lack of housing around here, but all the new developments are four bedroomed 'executive' properties. Meanwhile, a few miles north in Hull, there are plans to demolish whole streets. It's a funny world...

 

[biffvernon]

Meanwhile, a few miles north in Hull

Which means you must live near me.