Hooray!

[Penners]

ours are unlined, stone chimneys, all the way to the top, one with a horizontal run of about 10 foot (I know, what were they thinking?) before a right-angle bend into the run to the top. Neither upward run is absolutely vertical, which also helps to trap lots of potential chimney fire fuel on the ledges.

You're right, Greg, your flue is significantly different from ours, which is a straight run, lined and insulated flue. However, referring to your 3-monthly sweep recommendation, I venture to suggest that that's an unusual requirement based on your setup, rather than a typical one.

 

[xanthe]

I'm slightly scared of the wood-burner. I grew up with open fires in an inglenook with a chimney that you could easily have sent a small child up.

The surveyor has commented that the chimney appears a bit narrow and has tar staining on the outside of the bricks. The top is in a bit of a bad state... hooray for cement pointing and disintegrating bricks - copings look bad too. It will need to be rebuilt when we do the roof.

The wood-burner has a six inch twin wall, flexible stainless steel liner but I've no idea how that works in practice or what happens when we rebuild the top of the chimney.

Greg - your chimney sounds both fascinating and terrifying. Glad the fire was caught in time. I have a terror of that happening.

 

[Penners]

I'm slightly scared of the wood-burner. I grew up with open fires in an inglenook with a chimney that you could easily have sent a small child up.

The surveyor has commented that the chimney appears a bit narrow and has tar staining on the outside of the bricks. The top is in a bit of a bad state... hooray for cement pointing and disintegrating bricks - copings look bad too. It will need to be rebuilt when we do the roof.

The wood-burner has a six inch twin wall, flexible stainless steel liner but I've no idea how that works in practice or what happens when we rebuild the top of the chimney.

There's nothing to be scared of*! A properly installed woodburner is a joy! The twin-wall, insulated flue sounds like good news - the insulation is important to keep flue gases hot until they emerge from the top. That way they won't cool and condense inside the flue, leaving acidic tars to eat away the flue walls.

* My only qualification to this is if you have a thatched roof. If you have, then a woodburning stove might be a bit more of a cause for concern.

 

[mims&pip]

* My only qualification to this is if you have a thatched roof. If you have, then a woodburning stove might be a bit more of a cause for concern.

I totally agree with Penners. Our last house (a thatch), had a woodburning stove that the PO had installed in a vast inglenook - in fact the woodburner was pretty vast too at 16 kw - and I lived in constant fear of the house going up in flames every time we lit it, to the extent that we rarely did after the initial novelty wore off (having previously only had open fires).....

The final straw last year was when we too had a (small) chimney fire, caused by the flue coming away from the rear of the woodburner after a bolt sheared off enabling an escaping spark to ignite something inside the chimney. Luckily I had only just lit the fire and Pip was able to get inside the inglenook and extinguish the blaze himself.....phew!

It put me off thatches for life.

xanthe - It sounds as though the set-up in your new home-to-be has been done with a *belt and braces* approach (whereas as ours was a bit of a botch by the PO) and your surveyor has obviously given you a good handle on what needs attention. GL with your move

 

[88v8]

We have two woodburners in our thatched.
Running them every evening.
When we came here there was one stove run every evening but in not very good nick, and an inglenook little used.

Iirc, thatch fires don't usually happen because of sparks.
Given insurers' obsession with chimney height above ridge**, one would think that the only cause, but I believe most fires happen because of unlined chimneys or those with single-skin liners; in both cases the high temperature of the woodburner - high compared to an open flue - leads to heating of the thatch where the chimney goes through the roof. Often the masonry is thinner there and the thatch acts as a blanket retaining the heat until it spontaneously combusts from inside. At that point, goodbye roof.

But with a double-skin or blanket-wrapped liner it will be fine.

Two points; one, only burn seasoned wood. Never pine unless it's kindling for lighting up. No rubbish, no old pallets. Seasoned is not expensive, burning cheap or gash wood is a mug's game. It produces sparks, and tar.
Second, when you rebuild the chimney top you will have to support the liner. They are hung from the top, usually in a clamp plate, and they are blooming heavy. No way must it be allowed to sit on the register plate.
Third, if you have no flue-gas thermometer, buy one. A tenner well spent. That way the stove will not be run too hot (warp the stove/burn out the liner) nor too cold (flammable corrosive tar deposits in the flue).

Our stoves are swept every summer, once. The soot is dry and of minimal quantity. If one burns unseasoned or does not pay attention to running temperature, it might need sweeping twice, which will undo the 'saving' of burning poor wood anyway.

Ivor

** increasingly, insurers look for 6ft above ridge, so if you are rebuilding the stack ensure the top of the pot, or the coping if no pot, is at least 6ft up.

 

[Greg.Hobson]

Two points; one, only burn seasoned wood. Never pine unless it's kindling for lighting up. No rubbish, no old pallets. Seasoned is not expensive, burning cheap or gash wood is a mug's game. It produces sparks, and tar.
Second, when you rebuild the chimney top you will have to support the liner. They are hung from the top, usually in a clamp plate, and they are blooming heavy. No way must it be allowed to sit on the register plate.
Third, if you have no flue-gas thermometer, buy one. A tenner well spent. That way the stove will not be run too hot (warp the stove/burn out the liner) nor too cold (flammable corrosive tar deposits in the flue).

Totally agree with the above. I was that mug 20 years ago, and I got to the level of flue thermometers and flue dampers about 4 years ago, since when I believe I finally understand how much I have yet to learn! This winter my major learning has been the value of well-seasoned hardwoods over equivalent softwood. I will be buying only hardwood this summer - the price difference is fully recovered in the increased heat given off and the longevity of the excellent bed of embers that results, meaning it has a greater chance of staying in overnight.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Pythons and hotels aren't generally a good mix

Unless you're making a classic sitcom!

 

[xanthe]

Thank you, that is really helpful and sounds reassuring about the wood-burner. I'm planning to use decent tradesmen so hopefully they will know what to do with the chimney rebuild/liner issues (plus I am not known for letting builders get on with things on their own :roll: )

The current owners haven't done a huge amount to the house, and what they did do was generally done well, but some wasn't needed (DPC); some should never have been done (cement pointing) and then there has been general neglect of the 'boring bits' like gutters, windows, roof tiles, wiring and so on.

For us, half the reason that we wanted the property is that it hasn't been too mucked about with - no wall to wall carpeting or glossy black beams for starters.

Fortunately, we don't have thatch - just Kentish peg tile. The chimney is in a bit of an odd place though.

To describe badly, the oldest part of the house (c.1580)is a 2 bay rectangle and has four floors. The surveyor thinks there was once another bay and that the fireplace was a central hearth open to the rafters. The current fireplace - which is a massive inglenook affair - is tacked onto the back of the right hand bay so sits completely outside the main and oldest part of the house. A service area (c.C18th) runs along the back and now houses the kitchen and bathroom. The gable roof then turned into a cat-slide. The chimney pokes up through the cat-slide roof and I don't think the top is higher then the roof ridge.

It's all a bit odd - even the surveyor was/is confused as he expected the standard lobby house and this doesn't fit in any of the usual types.


Apparently the fuel is being left - which may of course mean two logs, so I am going to investigate sources of more. Are certain woods nicer in the way that they are on an open fire in terms of heat, smell etc? Can you still do chestnuts and marshmallows (not together)?

I will probably organise the HETA chappy to come out asap and instruct me on the wonders of the wood burner as well as sweep the thing. Does it make a huge mess and can you use it just before and after?

 

[Penners]

Are certain woods nicer in the way that they are on an open fire in terms of heat, smell etc? Can you still do chestnuts and marshmallows (not together)?

Hardwoods are definitely the best choice, and make sure that the wood is well seasoned. Dry wood makes far less acidic tar (which can deposit itself on the inside walls of your flue). We usually get ours going with a few bits of softwood, then use hardwood logs for the rest of the evening. It seems to be happy to burn pretty well any kind of wood.

I will probably organise the HETA chappy to come out asap and instruct me on the wonders of the wood burner as well as sweep the thing. Does it make a huge mess and can you use it just before and after?

A good HETAS sweep won't make much mess - at least ours doesn't - although afterwards it's a good idea to have a dust around on surfaces near the stove to see whether a small amount of fine soot powder has floated into the air. Don't use the stove for a few hours before he comes - he needs it to be cool. But you can certainly light it again as soon as he's gone. When you book your sweep, it would probably be a good idea to sound rather anxious and ask him to assure you that he'll be a clean as possible!

 

[Greg.Hobson]

I'll hold my hand up and say that my olfactory senses have never been much good, plus I failed to nurture them and so I find myself unable to decipher smells/tastes in ways other than simply yeah! or urgh!

Having said that, I have learnt that different hardwoods burn differently. My present supply is mainly Birch (which lights and burns quickly with a high heat) with some Beech and Ash. The Beech burns brightly and the Ash easily, as described in the old poem about which woods to burn that is easily found on't'interweb (search "Beech wood fires burn bright and clear" or "Ash wood old and Ash wood green is fit for hearth of King or Queen"). The Birch is really good when mixed with other, slower burning varieties like Oak to get them well established.

Also this year, I have been burning a Cherry tree that a friend had removed in 2013. He kept the wood for me and I cut it into the right lengths for my stoves then "blessed" it with my birthday present - a large felling axe. I stored it for 18 months until this winter, where it has been used and has been a great wood for burning.

You may well find that the biggest difficulty is getting a reliable, regular supply of well-seasoned wood. The alternative, as with the Cherry mentioned above, is to source it yourself from field/garden to fire, which requires sheltered space, the right tools and a desire to spend time outside in healthy exercise, resulting in the opportunity for lots of (very) deferred gratification in the comfort of your own home

 

[88v8]

In a woodburner you won't smell the smoke unless you have the door open, which makes it no more efficient than an open fire.

Order the wood cut to the longest length your woodburner will take. Short logs vanish faster.
The logs may arrive in large chunks which you then have to chop up; if it's a light wood such as beech, avoid chopping it too small. Otoh, a denser wood like oak can be hard to burn in large pieces.
If you look like running out, don't leave it until late January to reorder, or you may find there is no seasoned left. In that case one may be tempted by part-seasoned, but it won't burn well - we had that problem last year and instead I ordered kiln-dried, more expensive but one needs less of it as the heat is not wasted drying the wood.

Yes, some wood better than other. Repeat after me:

Logs to Burn, Logs to burn,
Logs to save the coal a turn,
Here's a word to make you wise,
When you hear the woodman's cries.
Read these lines and really learn,
The proper kind of logs to burn.

Oak logs they will warm you well,
If they're old and dry.
Larch logs, of pine will smell,
But the sparks will fly.

Beech logs for Christmas time,
Yew logs do heat well.
Wet logs it is a crime,
For anyone to sell.

Birch logs they will burn too fast,
Chestnut scarce at all.
Hawthorn logs are good to last,
If you cut them in the fall.

Holly logs will burn like wax,
You should burn them green,
Elm logs like smouldering flax,
No flame to be seen.

Pear logs and apple logs,
They will scent your room,
Cherry logs across the dogs,
Smell like flowers in bloom.

But ash logs, all smooth and grey,
Burn them green or old;
Buy up all that come your way,
They're worth their weight in gold

Ivor
(plagiarism by mouse)