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Anonymous
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b - do you have some photographs of the brickwork? - andrew
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Anonymous
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not on me.. at work at the mo.. but I should have at home.. will post some later.. is a bit of a mix now due to more modernisation in the 19'50s.. do you want close up, or just a pic of the house as a whole..?
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Anonymous
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b - a close up showing half a dozen bricks.... and any segmental.gauged work over openings - a
i will have a look at them in the morning..... i am at work also and my home dial-up is a bit cranky at the moment.
i will have a look at them in the morning..... i am at work also and my home dial-up is a bit cranky at the moment.
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Anonymous
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I'll see what I can do.. <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="
"> hopefully they live up to expectations.. the person who said it was good was looking at quite a small picture so should warn you it may not be that special really, not sure myself as its my field of expertise by a long way but they do seem to have lasted well by and large... the openings however have all been changed tho when new doors/ windows were fitted in the 50's.. but I do I do have some old pics of before that modernisation.. would have to get them scanned in at work tommorrow if you were interested?
"> hopefully they live up to expectations.. the person who said it was good was looking at quite a small picture so should warn you it may not be that special really, not sure myself as its my field of expertise by a long way but they do seem to have lasted well by and large... the openings however have all been changed tho when new doors/ windows were fitted in the 50's.. but I do I do have some old pics of before that modernisation.. would have to get them scanned in at work tommorrow if you were interested?
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yes please - if it isn't too much trouble...............
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I'll post some brickwork pics tonight if I get in before dark so I can take them.. and I'll try and remember the old photos for tommorrow as I don't have a home scanner...
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b - great... i will look forward to seeing them in th emorning/during the day - andrew
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sorry its taken so long.. I've had a bad few days.. heres the brick pic.. tried to take a pic of one of the older bits, the pointing seems a bit different as its peaked up in the centre rather than flush or flat, not sure how well that shows tho
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Anonymous
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this has had me scratching my head for a while - i have not seen that bond before.... the only thing slightly comparable is 'dutch bond' - a rare variation of flemish bond in which alternate courses are moved half a brick to left or right; also called staggered flemish in the united states (p87of brunskill's 'brick building in britain 1990)....... although in your case there are two headers as opposed to one. i cannot find your bond in anything? perhaps the brickmakers own variation? perhaps he traded with the low lands??. the pointing is easy - double struck... used occasionally in the 19th and found at hampton court palace painted red? on top part and gold on lower part...... i hope your week improves : - )
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How odd.. all I know about the building of the house is that it's suposed to have been built by a bloke called Abel Cain who was originally a wheelwright in bermondsey and then moved to Saffron Walden and became a brickmaker.. no indication of continental connections that I know of, tho in light of the discovery that parts of the house are much older and the present house is built around it I'm going to be doing alot more research so maybe something will come to light then, could the odd bond be due to the fact they were refronting an older house? the bricks pictured are from the ground floor wall, which I think is now supporting the old jettied first floor (I should have a house historian visiting from the local record office soon to confirm this as they were very exciting about my pargetting etc finds!) and thank you.. <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT=""> its improving.. just had some very bad news on friday that pushed house history out of my mind for a while..
"> its improving.. just had some very bad news on friday that pushed house history out of my mind for a while..
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Anonymous
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b - i doubt if the bonding is down to getting the course work correct due to the six of the existing frontage..... the more i think about it, the more i think it was the brickmaker attempting to raise interest in his wares by doing something different from his neighbours?........
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definatly sounds feasible.. I should be able to meet with the woman who wrote the local history book I got the info about the builder from next week as she's helps run the record office, I'll see if she has any more info about the building of the house that didn't make it to publicateion.. <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="">
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let me know what she says.................. she might pour water on the 'brickmaker advertising his wares etc' by recognising the bond.......... !
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Who has suggested it may possibly be termed 'Bastard Bond'!
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I finally got some more info on some of the architecture of my house (the new thread about pargetting reminded me I hadn't updated you yet..) no more info about the bond as yet, but the pargetting and the beams/ wide boards are definately 17th century which makes parts of my house up to 200 years older than I'd thought! The mystery is, in a copy of a map of walden from around the 1750's I Can't identify anything that could be my house!! but in must have been there.. best idea I have is that being on the very edge of the town and therefore the map it's got wiped out by duff copying or damage to the original, but if anyone has any other ideas I'd welcome them.. <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="">
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Anonymous
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Maps of this time were often commissioned by people with money and a vested interest of land they owned and wished to record, so sadly not all buildings were considered worth inclusion or of importance to the original need or use of the map.
So perhaps first look for who (and why) the map was commissioned, this may explain the absence of your cottage.
For instance Cambridge Colleges had title over vast amounts of land even part or whole villages, My cottage is in east cambridgeshire and the Colleges owned a large part of the village.
The cottage I live in and my neighbours are both 17thC twins, the College mapped the whole village in 1690 on there map (held by Pembroke College, the former land owners) they have drawn a lovely little representation of my neighbours cottage but mine is absent, why? because it was owned by the local lord/landowner and later farmer and not relevant to the College.
I found my cottage on a map of the farm estate of 1720. So perhaps the records office may have records of former landowner lords or farmers and you may find your cottage thier.
As for dating the timbers sometimes it is hard to tell if they are of the build period or older, in the 17thC apparently timber was harder to get hold of and many cottages where built with both new and recycled timber, mine has some 15thC timbers but its a 17thC building.
It is a foggy road is house history.
Best of luck.
So perhaps first look for who (and why) the map was commissioned, this may explain the absence of your cottage.
For instance Cambridge Colleges had title over vast amounts of land even part or whole villages, My cottage is in east cambridgeshire and the Colleges owned a large part of the village.
The cottage I live in and my neighbours are both 17thC twins, the College mapped the whole village in 1690 on there map (held by Pembroke College, the former land owners) they have drawn a lovely little representation of my neighbours cottage but mine is absent, why? because it was owned by the local lord/landowner and later farmer and not relevant to the College.
I found my cottage on a map of the farm estate of 1720. So perhaps the records office may have records of former landowner lords or farmers and you may find your cottage thier.
As for dating the timbers sometimes it is hard to tell if they are of the build period or older, in the 17thC apparently timber was harder to get hold of and many cottages where built with both new and recycled timber, mine has some 15thC timbers but its a 17thC building.
It is a foggy road is house history.
Best of luck.
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Thats worth considering.. the big landowner round here was (and probably is) Audley End estate, I'll see if the local lord commissioned the map.. the date is pretty conclusive tho, because, whilst the timbers could have been recycled (tho if they were it was done very well, there are no extra notches or nail holes) the pargetting couldn't have been and I'm told thats definately from the 1600's so my workers brick cottage was built around the remains of a much grander house that had been there for about 2 centuries already.. the local records people are pretty excited about this as no-one had the foggiest the cottages were any older than 1820!
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Anonymous
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Tithe maps were the old tax maps and they should help, I am just up the road from you, and I have found my place on the Chapman and Andre survey from 1777 (I am on the site of the old market in Thaxted) you should go to Chelmsford and have a look around the map room as you could find out some good stuff.
Essex Tithe maps
Essex Tithe maps
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Anonymous
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The Quakers used to own a lot of the land around Saffron Walden, although not as far back as when your house was built. Have you tried the Friends' School for info or old maps?
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Anonymous
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Thank you both... sounds like alot more investigations and a trip to chelmsford are definatly in order.. <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="">
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