Help with plastering/identification/general help

[yamin]

Hi folks!

A compound question here!

Please see photos below. My first question is

Photo one - can you see the hair in this plaster? Does this mean it is lime plaster? Its about a centimetre thick. Its coming off in clumps, its fairly soft, and as I say, its full of these soft, different coloured hairs. Horsehair maybe?

Photo two - I think the stripe here is where they've put a skim of gypsum plaster on - does that sound right?

OK, here are the questions!

The wall, which is in the playroom, has been covered in woodchip and vinyl paint for years, is NOT in a good state. As I say the plaster is coming off in clumps. The other side of this wall is the RSJ put in to replace a weight bearing wall below (extended kitchen - 80s). The RSJ is metal. As far as we can see, what they have done is take the bottom 2 or 3 courses of bricks out in the playroom, and replace them with an RSJ. This has left a gap behind this old plaster, and where the gap is, the plaster is just falling off, now that the supporting woodchip is gone!!!! Clearly we can't just re decorate, but neither can we just re plaster with nothing for the plaster to adhere to! Above the gap is the original bricks.

1. Is there a lime equivalent of plasterboard that we can put in if we remove the whole wall of plaster? Can we use plasterbard for the gappy bit at the bottom and then just plaster over the bricks above?
2. I know plastering is an art, but this is an old, imperfect house, we don't mind undulating walls! - is this a job I could do? Not perfect by any means, but ok? (Money issues means NO CHANCE of paying to have this done - I'm at home so I can learn, but have to be self taught!)

Any advice will be gratefully received - I can post more pics if needed.View attachment 1View attachment 1

 

[MdB]

Main body is almost certainly lime (can't think of it being anything else). Top skim also looks like lime as it appears very white in the photo.

RSJ are not good on the breathability front so it doesn't matter what you stick onto them. Others probably have better ideas but I would consider plasterboard to the same level as the surrounding plaster and then lime skim top coat over the lot. You will need some sort of bonding on the plasterboard to get the lime to stick.

I would also suggest having a go at lime plastering yourself over a small area as if it goes wrong you just knock it off and have another go. It would be worth going on a lime plastering course though (£70 for a day at Mike Wye) as you can pick up a lot of tricks there. Youtube also has a number of videos which are worth watching.

 

[Gervase]

Rather than plasterboard you can use Heraklith board, which comes in the same thickness as plasterboard but is breathable, greener and provides a better key for plaster. Ty Mawr sell a similar product under their own brand name. It's an excellent substitute for laths and is hugely cheaper if cost is an issue.

What you've got there is lime plaster - lime and sharp sand rough stuff under a lime and white sand skim coat.
It's not hard to learn, and the materials are a lot more forgiving than modern gypsum and cement-based plasters. Take MdB's suggestion and go on a one-day course to familiarise yourself with the material and give it a go. Most of the lime centres around the country run familiarisation courses as do a lot of practitioners (no deliberate plug intended!).

Like many craft skills Plastering is one of those things for which you can learn the theory in a day and then take a life-time of practice getting right. Some people, however, take to it like a duck to water. One of the quickest learners I've encountered was a media studies teacher who astonished herself by being a first-rate plasterer.

 

[MdB]

Listen to Gervase rather than me. He does this stuff for a living.

 

[Nemesis]

Mind you he was also once a Fleet Street journalist.

Can we believe anything he says?

http://www.horganandwebb.com/about.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/house-and-home/property/buy-of-the-week-how-to-restore-a-wreck-427201.html

 

[yamin]

Great advice everyone, thank you! For some reason I'm ridiculously pleased that its lime plaster! The house has been so mucked around in the 80s refurb that I thought all semblance of original materials would have gone! If I can do a day course at under £100, then given the money it will save us (woodchip ALL OVER the house!) then I really think its worth looking into. Any links to places that do it? Will look into the plasterboard thing - think the more breathable option would be good there.
Nemesis, surely being in the lime mortar business and a fleet street journalist are not mutually exclusive - in fact, doesn't each involve getting completely plastered??????

Thanks again folks!

 

[Nemesis]

Yes, you could be right - but ask Gervase about whisky and lime courses - he can help with pointing you in the direction of the finest of both I'm sure!

Send him an e-mail...

 

[MdB]

Where are you based? - it is worth adding a general location to your profile as it helps when answering. Mike Wye is in Devon - http://www.mikewye.co.uk/. Do go on a course but don't feel you have to buy their products. You can buy a bag of lime for Jewsons or similar for £6 to £8 which works out a lot cheaper than buying putty or ready mixed lime mortar.

 

[fjpdesigns]

I'll just add that if you use horse hair it should come from the horse's coat, not the mane or tail as this is too fine and smooth. Otherwise use cow, goat or pig hair.

 

[yamin]

Um, do I have to sneak around in the dead of night looking for obliging farm animals????? Is stealing their hair a punishable offence? Or can you only have lime plaster if you have 14 acres and room for a pony???? ( How did that chip get on my shoulder???????)

Seriously, do you just buy?

 

[Nemesis]

Yes!!!

http://directory.periodproperty.co.uk/listing/

 

[MdB]

Seriously, do you just buy?

http://www.mikewye.co.uk/mikeprices.htm#limemortarhaired3or3.5/1
They used to sell hair by itself as well but don't seem to at the moment.

 

[yamin]

Much obliged, thanks!

 

[fjpdesigns]

You could try Anglia Lime if you are in these here parts. If not I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find a local supplier.
http://www.anglialime.com
Unfortunately, their web sit is STILL not up and running, but their address and phone number is there.
You can get horse hair from the Period Property shop here, but it does look like mane or tail hair.
Has anyone tried using it? I've always shied away from it and used goat hair.

 

[DaveBrigg]

Um, do I have to sneak around in the dead of night looking for obliging farm animals????? Is stealing their hair a punishable offence? Or can you only have lime plaster if you have 14 acres and room for a pony???? ( How did that chip get on my shoulder???????)

Seriously, do you just buy?

I was lucky enough to know someone whose mum managed a stable. They were delighted to help, and within a couple of weeks I had a pile of bin liners full of hair, to be used when we had the house rendered this summer. They were really interested to learn about a traditional use for their animals, and to know that the hair would be preserved for possibly hundreds of years. I also gave a donation to a horse charity. Horses grow thick coats in winter, but then overheat when ridden, so they are often regularly clipped.
When rendering, the labourer just grabbed handfulls of hair every time he filled the mixer and chopped into lengths of about an inch with a pair of old scissors. One bag was more than enough for the whole house, so I have plenty spare if you want some posting. If it is a big job it will probably be more economical to find a more local source.

 

[Schoolmarm]

I'll just add that if you use horse hair it should come from the horse's coat, not the mane or tail as this is too fine and smooth. Otherwise use cow, goat or pig hair.

I was sent tail hair, which I could have chopped off one of my own horses for free.
I hate it. I rang "them" up and complained but he poo poohed me and said it was fine. Well Jane Schofield says it isn't fine in her little green book. Won't be using "them" again.


I spotted today that you can buy tubs of goat hair from Braith peeps in Burnley which is quite near to me so will be off to buy some soon.

 

[yamin]

Hi Dave

Well, we have a smallish 3 bed cottage and there is a lot of woodchip/replastering, but susoect from what you say that one bag may be enough, so your kind offer of posting would be well appreciated, if a a little strange! Shall I PM you to sort details?

Thank you!

 

[yamin]

Where are you based? - it is worth adding a general location to your profile as it helps when answering. Mike Wye is in Devon -

I've identified myself now on my profile! We're in Alcester, Warwickshire. Feel very humbled in out 18th century cottage vs the 14th and 15th century stuff in roman and post roman Alcester! Well worth an architectural visit, anyone coming to Stratford!

 

[Micky]

Hey Yamin as you can see am just down the road from you...we used the Stove people in Alcester to install our woodburner very good service (apart from knocking into next door's living room but these things happen)

 

[yamin]

Hi there fellow Warwickshirian! We used a local man to fit our stove, allied to a stove place in Studley - he was good too. Any other contacts you'd recommend for PP type of jobs?