Help please with window locks

[lyndasfarne]

I must admit I have already posted to Agony Uncle, but so confused now I needed belt and braces!

We are in the process of buying a grade 11 listed property and trying to arrange insurance in readiness for exchange of contracts.

The windows in the property are all wooden, some are opening casement and some horizontal sliding casement. It would appear at present the owners have a small screw type lock.

The Insurance companies on their sites ask for the BSA locks. Please could someone advise which locks would be suitable for the windows which would be approved by both the Listed Building Consent and the Insurance companies.

If at all possible I would be so grateful for a website to look at. At the moment I am very confused :roll:

Many thanks in advance

Lynda

 

[Flyfisher]

Insurers may suggest certain locks but they may not be mandatory. Our insurers (NFU) asked if window locks are fitted but didn't refuse cover without them. The important thing is to disclose any such 'material information'. The premium might be a bit higher of course, but at least you'll be covered.

I'm certainly not trying to dissuade you from fitting good locks, but it might not be necessary to rush into fitting inappropriate locks.

 

[Baron de Gynes]

Might I suggest you speak to Tracey Warren on tracey [.at.] lpoc.co.uk at Lark Insurance Broking Group, who are the preferred insurers for the Listed Property Owners Club.

Again, like FF, I wouldn't dream of dissuading you from fitting good locks (or locks at all - we don't live in the '50s after all) but you may find that there are good alternatives.

 

[biffvernon]

Many of the insurance companies have things like "BS approved locks" on their literature. I phoned my insurer last time I changed as they seemed to have these sort of conditions. I just explained about the various period latches and screws and pointed out that they could only be operated from outside by first breaking the window. "Oh that'll be fine then" came the reply! Very sensible.

 

[biffvernon]

I wouldn't dream of dissuading you from fitting good locks (or locks at all - we don't live in the '50s after all) .

Indeed. Burglary rates are now lower! I lock my door every time I leave the house, mostly because our insurer says we should, but I bet no burglar has ever tried the door handle. Ever.

What is the point?

 

[lyndasfarne]

Thank you both for your replies.

If we can't find an alternative we will leave the locks that are there we will totally honest with any insurance company, so as you say they have exactly the correct information. We would rather pay a bit more in premiums then be under insured.

I was actually going to contact Tracey Warren tomorrow to find out more about the insurance side, so will ask her advice on the locks too.

Many thanks for that,

Thank you too Biffveron, (you just added before I posted) I will use the same tack. This is just very new to us at the moment and worried about getting it wrong.

 

[Baron de Gynes]

:shock: Ooh, crikey, forgot to mention - if you do get in touch with Tracey Warren, he's very much a he. You live and learn...
Wouldn't want someone else to make the mistake...

We've been really pleased with the service we've had from Lark Insurance, and Tracey in particular. Haven't had to claim *touch wood* but they seem to be on the ball. Not cheap, mind, but then anything to do with listed buildings seems to have its price. :roll:

 

[lyndasfarne]

Whoops, thanks for the warning wouldn't want to make that mistake.

Have tried one or two insurance co's Intersure, Lloyds and Home Protect, but still have misgivings as their quotes didn't seem too high and I have been scouring the internet and read how much more expensive and difficult it was to insure listed property.

 

[Flyfisher]

I lock my door every time I leave the house, mostly because our insurer says we should, but I bet no burglar has ever tried the door handle. Ever.

Yep, that's my feeling too. Anyway, any potential burglar looking through our windows would probably conclude, from the general mess and disarray, that we've already been 'turned over'. :lol:

 

[Baron de Gynes]

The rebuild cost of a listed property is the real determining factor - get a good rebuild valuation; it is unlikely to be the same as the purchase value.

You're likely to be looking towards 'high end' insurers, such as Zurich and Hiscox. In my experience, if you try them, you might not baulk too much at the price of the LPOC!

 

[lyndasfarne]

We had a survey done by RICS surveyor. The purchase price was £156000 and the rebuild price he gave was £295000. I'm sorry to appear stupid but what is a LPOC.??

 

[lyndasfarne]

Sorry just realised what LPOC is :roll: just feeling a little harrassed this evening.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, the rebuild cost seems to be the biggest difference between period/listed and 'normal' properties and I'm not surprised at those figures.
Our rebuilding cost is about 2x the market value whereas our previous house (1950s detached) had a rebuild cost of about 1/3rd the market value.
Such differences certainly make a big difference to insurance premiums.

 

[MattW]

Our rebuilding cost is about 2x the market value whereas our previous house (1950s detached) had a rebuild cost of about 1/3rd the market value.

My understanding is that nearly all domestic household policies include clauses that enable an insurer to pay your financial loss rather than fund a rebuild? As such if you over insure you are paying premium for no advantage.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

NFU get consistently good reviews from the good folk of this parish for their period property insurance.

I have no idea - ours is thorugh the mortgage and have never moved it. :roll:

 

[Flyfisher]

Our rebuilding cost is about 2x the market value whereas our previous house (1950s detached) had a rebuild cost of about 1/3rd the market value.

My understanding is that nearly all domestic household policies include clauses that enable an insurer to pay your financial loss rather than fund a rebuild? As such if you over insure you are paying premium for no advantage.

Not sure I understand that point MattW. It would imply that were my house to be totally lost, the insurer would only pay for the market value of the house, even though that would be inadequate to rebuild it.

Conversely, it would have paid me - quite handsomely - to have have burned my previous house to the ground, collect its market value from the insurer and then spend 1/3rd on rebuilding it.

Surely, in both cases, my financial loss is, in practice, the cost of rebuilding?

Unless I'm misunderstanding something?

 

[lyndasfarne]

Thanks all this discussion is really helpful.

What I don't quite understand is the insurance companies I spoke to didnt seem to have any problems, they knew it was listed. I even queried the price of rebuild with one, and he said that was a fair price as it was stone walls with slate roof, fairly standard he said. Some agreed with me to up it to £300000, some covering up to £500000. the yearly premiums varied though from £297 to £450 inc contents

Our present house also victorian, but not listed was given a rebuild cost of £300000 and premiums are not too bad. Just a little confused

 

[JoceAndChris]

It is a perplexing business, insuring your house. I thought I read that rebuild value is around twice purchase price, as a rough guide? It's impossible to work it out though - half the materials for this house aren't really available anymore - where do you find hundreds of Regency bricks, a roof of Swithland slate of the same period, diamond shaped Ancaster flagstones from that period? Who can make a 100 metre brick ha-ha, a 7 metre well, a vaulted undercroft? I try not to think about what would happen if it all just disappeared in a fire - reckon I'd just give up and jump into the flames! Anyway, the NFU did not make horrid conditions about locks and trees as some of the others did. They also calmly handed over 3k when were burgled last year, so I thoroughly recommend them.

I sort of wish I'd left the doors open as first the burglar tried the outer porch double doors. (glazed) He found it pretty easy to bust that lock open, which has left the wood permanently contorted, so the draught is much worse. Then he got to the inner double porch doors, Regency with pretty diamond timber glazing. There's a big iron bar on the inside of the house, so he pushed and smashed to try and force through. The bar didn't yield, but bent, the old tear dropped glass was broken and many of the delicate timber glazing bars broken too. He then gave up at the porch, and went to the bathroom window where he broke some more historic glass and bust open the window lock and got in. I almost feel like leaving a little sign along the lines of " if you must break in, please do it here" - as if he broken the ugly modern bathroom window he'd have done me a real favour!

We spent 3 k on a burglar alarm and £300 a year to maintain ( it links to the police) so I'm feeling a bit more secure - I've also taken to leaving R 4 blaring out in the garden when I go out as I think that deters both burglars and Mr Fox.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I've also taken to leaving R 4 blaring out in the garden when I go out as I think that deters both burglars and Mr Fox.

It's true - we all know how Liam hates the media!

So pleased to hear that Lincolnshire has just two housebreakers though, both of whom are deterred by Libby Purves and Midweek.

8)

 

[Flyfisher]

From a purely financial standpoint, if a listed property is completely destroyed by fire then, sad though it would be, all the history is lost forever and an exact rebuild is, arguably, a bit pointless - from a heritage perspective anyway. So a new house could be built to latest regulations at, typically, a much lower cost.

But my understanding is that total losses are comparatively rare so that insurance pay outs are usually for very extensive repairs, which can be more expensive than a new build, hence the higher premiums for listed/period properties.

My in-laws never had any house insurance because they couldn't afford it. At one point they wanted to insure for a fixed amount, which would have enabled them to build a small modern house in the event that their house was lost but they were advised that such an approach would leave them severely under-insured and that any payout would therefore be proportionally reduced. No doubt they could have obtained the required insurance through a bespoke insurer, but not at an affordable price.

Anyway, they didn't bother and, as things turned out, must have saved a small fortune over many years.