Hello im new

[whathaveidone]

Hello All,

I am new to this forum, and also to period properties.

Quick introduction:
We are in the process of buying our new home which is a listed C18 Thatched cottage in a small hamlet in Wiltshire.
When the sale completes, we will have a bit of work to do in the place as its a bit dated, but looking forward to it.
We will have to do small bits at a time as and when we have the time / money to do things, so expecting it to be a very long project....

I do have one question at the moment, it looks like the previous owner has added a modern waterproof exterior paint, and in places this is starting to expose the rubble wall below (which looks a bit soft and crumbly).
Should we look at removing this and repainting with lime wash (subject to listed building consent)?
And if we should remove it, what is the best way?
And is it a professional job, or can it be done as a DIY type task?

I have a few pictures that I will look at adding later once I have worked out how.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Abi Cott]

Welcome to the forum

Most jobs can be done DIY if you have the time and patience.

I find Photobucket the easiest way to post pictures.

Hopefully now you're bumped back to the top you will get some more knowledgeable posts from more knowledgeable people

 

[LadyArowana]

Hello and welcome, as Abi mentioned a link to a photo hosting site gets around the forum size limit on pictures, it will work with a FB picture too

 

[plasticpigeon]

Don't know if it needs to be taken off, maybe, partiucularly if it is peeling and water is getting trapped behind. Someone on here had fantastic results with dry ice blasting as it vapourises the paint and leaves the substrate underneath pretty much untouched. I am going to investigate this option to get some stonework stripped at the high pressure steam (DOFF) cleaning was a disaster as it was quite damaging.

 

[whathaveidone]

Thanks All,

OK an attempt to upload a few pictures.

I will look into the dry ice option, thank you for the advice

Paul

 

[88v8]

Hello and welcome.

Soft and crumbly. Hmmm. Not a preferred feature of a house. I prefer that with custard.

Yes, take it off when you can. Especially around the bottom where it is likely to trap any rising damp (oops, mustn't say 'rising damp')

Dry ice.
Or plastic bead.
http://www.blast-cleaning.co.uk/index.php?menuid=50&component=content&task=article&articleid=39&categoryid=9

Poultice.
https://www.decoratingwarehouse.co.uk/attachments/22d83780dd9372211466c6a782232a0c.pdf

In the meantime, above, say, the lower 2 feet or so, dob some more 'orrible modern finish on it. Don't leave cracks to let the rain in.

Thatch..... we have a C17 GII thatched. Not large. I reckon with the extra insurance cost, the reridging every 8/10 years, the eventual rethatch, over the life cycle of the roof it costs us c£2,000 a year to live under thatch. Just an observation.

Ivor

 

[whathaveidone]

Thanks everyone.

Thanks for the links Ivor, and also the cost of living under thatch, that is something I had really thought about yet, but thank you for this
I did have a quick chat with NFU with regards to Building insurance, and they mentioned a couple of thatch fireproofing products, magma firestop and thatchsayf.
Are either of these any good?

Paul

 

[Flyfisher]

That second photo looks exactly like the state of our walls, especially on the section of the house build from chalk blocks. I tackled the job in two phases.

Phase one was ignoring it for about six/seven years while I tackled the other more important repairs and let nature take its course to loosen and degrade the paint even more. You may want to skip this phase :wink:

Phase two was last year when I finally got around to chipping it all off by hand before repointing and repairing the various cracks and spalled bricks. I paid someone to help with this and while it was a bit of a boring job it was completed much quicker than I thought, around two weeks in all for an area a little larger than in the photo (all sides). I tried all manner of tools but the best one turned out to be a scutching hammer.

I ran out of good weather last year so the lime washing is the first big job on my 'to do' list for this year, as soon as the weather warms up.

 

[JanJonWestWales]

just to respond on the "is limewashing a DIY job".....yes !!! about as easy as applying any paint

You can source it as pre-mixed limewash, or buy putty, and water down to a good consistency (single cream-ish)

take some reasonable safety measures , lime is caustic, so wear long sleeves, gloves and goggles.

 

[whathaveidone]

just to respond on the "is limewashing a DIY job".....yes !!! about as easy as applying any paint

You can source it as pre-mixed limewash, or buy putty, and water down to a good consistency (single cream-ish)

take some reasonable safety measures , lime is caustic, so wear long sleeves, gloves and goggles.

Good point thank you for this, I will search online to see if I can source any local.

Paul

 

[whathaveidone]

That second photo looks exactly like the state of our walls, especially on the section of the house build from chalk blocks. I tackled the job in two phases.

Phase one was ignoring it for about six/seven years while I tackled the other more important repairs and let nature take its course to loosen and degrade the paint even more. You may want to skip this phase :wink:

Phase two was last year when I finally got around to chipping it all off by hand before repointing and repairing the various cracks and spalled bricks. I paid someone to help with this and while it was a bit of a boring job it was completed much quicker than I thought, around two weeks in all for an area a little larger than in the photo (all sides). I tried all manner of tools but the best one turned out to be a scutching hammer.

I ran out of good weather last year so the lime washing is the first big job on my 'to do' list for this year, as soon as the weather warms up.

cottage3.JPG

cottage4.JPG

Thanks flyfisher, will have a look at this option first, well phase 2 anyway
BTW love your house

 

[livias]

My experience of modern paint over limewash (on a timberframe and daub substrate) is that the modern paint can be flaked off fairly easily with suitable tool. Its a slow and laborious job so for this house I put an advert on Gumtree "Strippers wanted" ... and got nine replies in one day :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[whathaveidone]

My experience of modern paint over limewash (on a timberframe and daub substrate) is that the modern paint can be flaked off fairly easily with suitable tool. Its a slow and laborious job so for this house I put an advert on Gumtree "Strippers wanted" ... and got nine replies in one day :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I just spat coffee all over my keyboard :lol:
Hope they did a good job for you......

 

[88v8]

Thanks for the links Ivor, and also the cost of living under thatch, that is something I had really thought about yet, but thank you for this
I did have a quick chat with NFU with regards to Building insurance, and they mentioned a couple of thatch fireproofing products, magma firestop and thatchsayf.
Are either of these any good?

They might be. At least they will do no harm. We are having our ridge redone this year and I'll ask our thatcher's advice, as that would be an opportune time for application.
http://www.trattbrothers.com/

NFU are very expensive.
Try here
https://www.county-insurance.co.uk/personal/county-thatch/

We have two woodburners.

Ivor

 

[whathaveidone]

Thanks Ivor for the information.
I will have a look at that insurance company and compare prices.

Fantastic looking property BTW

 

[tobydog]

Thanks for the links Ivor, and also the cost of living under thatch, that is something I had really thought about yet, but thank you for this
I did have a quick chat with NFU with regards to Building insurance, and they mentioned a couple of thatch fireproofing products, magma firestop and thatchsayf.
Are either of these any good?

They might be. At least they will do no harm. We are having our ridge redone this year and I'll ask our thatcher's advice, as that would be an opportune time for application.
http://www.trattbrothers.com/

NFU are very expensive.
Try here
https://www.county-insurance.co.uk/personal/county-thatch/

We have two woodburners.

Ivor

Ivor - are your chimney' heights at least 1.8 metres above the ridge and are your wood burner flues double lined? As you might recall, we're thatched and I tried getting a quote out of Country Insurance. I just failed on both counts.

I was doing well with the Salvation Army General Insurance Corporation until I found my house was too old. It's 1640 rather than 1700 or newer although it would be interesting to have someone prove otherwise!

Lark were interesting in that they would not penalise you just for having a wood burner in the house like most insurers do. We hardly use ours (once this winter) and Lark have a dormancy agreement whereby they won't load the premium if you agree not to use it. If you do use it then you have to provide a HETAS report first. I will need to provide an electrical certificate which is frustrating as the electrician was with us yesterday.

That leaves us with NFU and a policy that expires on 8th March. I go to war with them every year and beat the price down. At renewal they jack it back up and we fight again. I'm currently talking to a surveyor about getting a current rebuild cost assessment. They want £250. Is that reasonable?

Be prepared to shop around 'whathaveidone'

 

[whathaveidone]

Thank you for the information.
I will have a shop around and see what they say.

I must say this is a fantastic forum, thank you for your advice

 

[88v8]

Ivor - are your chimney' heights at least 1.8 metres above the ridge and are your wood burner flues double lined? As you might recall, we're thatched and I tried getting a quote out of Country Insurance. I just failed on both counts.

I will need to provide an electrical certificate which is frustrating as the electrician was with us yesterday.

That leaves us with NFU and a policy that expires on 8th March. I go to war with them every year and beat the price down. At renewal they jack it back up and we fight again. I'm currently talking to a surveyor about getting a current rebuild cost assessment. They want £250. Is that reasonable?

No. One is about 4'2" and the other 4'6". You may recall I posted about my efforts to raise one of them with a taller pot.
When we came here, one was around 3'6" and the other about 30" but in that one there was then an open fire.
Both woodburners are in daily use in winter. I am fussy about where I buy the wood, and built a special aerated store to keep it in. I have put flue gas thermometers on both stoves, and watch them carefully. I know how to light up without creating showers of sparks.
There are suitable cowls on tops of each flue.

The flues are lined, the liners have a jacket.
County, or rather their carriers as they are a broker, sent a surveyor to look at our chimneys last year as part of a general fire prevention programme. He propelled a camera up the liners and pronounced them OK.
He also looked at our extinguishers.

I could only raise the pots now by rebuilding the stacks and putting in new liners. Five figures, which is OK, but I don't want the botheration. Another issue I'll leave for a future owner.

Our electrical cert expired over a year ago. Our electrician is OK with old houses/period electrical fittings, but in some ways a bit anal and I have not got round to remedying all his fusspotisms, so if there is an electrical fire atm I won't be bothering the insurers with the rectification costs.

I did talk to NFU a couple of years ago. At that time County were charging around £1,000 (Buildings c£500k, Contents c£15k) and NFU's get-out-of-bed point would have been over £2,000 so we never got to nuts n bolts.

It is not unusual that an insurer will continue with existing customers whose specs are not entirely up to their current new-business standards. Thatch is an unbalanced portfolio and insurers don't want to lose income. County seem to change risk carriers quite often. I guess there are a couple of fires, they lose their shirt, jack up the terms, and County rather than lose a lot of customers find someone else to take it on.

Regardless of insurance I don't want the place catching fire, it would be a nuisance, and I'm careful that it doesn't. Ultimately though, we are mortgage-free so there is no one breathing down my neck and if push comes to shove I don't have to have insurance.

When we bought, our specialist old buildings surveyor recommended a rebuild value well below market, "You wouldn't rebuild it as it is, it's not Hampton Court", meaning that it's not special enough to justify an exact like-for-like rebuild. Anyway, I insured it for around market value, a bit above I think. You might shave a bit off that £250 but unless you have a specialist surveyor it's pointless and they're probably thin on the ground.

Thatch. A rich man's roof.

Ivor

 

[Flyfisher]

Insurance can be a bit of a nightmare, and we haven't even got thatch! I've been insuring ours on the basis of 1.5x market value after the advice of our specialist surveyor 10 years ago. Apparently, the worst case is a partial loss, in which case it may have to be rebuilt like for like, especially as it's G2*. But if it was completely destroyed then there would be no point in building a replica as all the historical interest would have been lost. Our previous house (1950s, Hertfordshire) was insured for about 1/3rd market value.

My big concern has always been the risk of under insuring and then having any claim reduced accordingly, eg, insure for 50% of the value, make a £100k claim but the insurance co only payout £50k because you're under insured. This has always seemed very unfair to me and I had a lot of discussion with NFU about it before their head office confirmed that they would not do this and would always pay out up the the amount insured regardless of property value.

This, I think, makes it much easier to decide your own valuation. So, for example, you might choose to insure for, say, £400£ knowing that even if you couldn't replace the property as it was then at least you'd be able to build something suitable to live in if the worst happened.

But it might be worth clarifying the exact position of your own insurer regarding being under-insured, preferably in writing!

 

[88v8]

We are having our ridge redone this year and I'll ask our thatcher's advice, as that would be an opportune time for application.

The quote came in. By the time we add the (un)necessary scaffolding, no change from £10,000.
That includes removal and replacement of the wire netting, as shrinkage of the thatch has left it rather baggy.

The thatcher was not enthused by the fireproofing products, so we won't.

The thatch is 11 years old, so that's £900 pa for reridging, then there's say £500 pa extra insurance, and the eventual rethatch at c£1,000 pa.
Did I say an extra £2,000 pa to live under thatch... make that £2,500.
Thatch. A rich man's roof.

Ivor