Hello! and request for builder advice, Berkshire

[Penners]

Some local authorities have no CO at all.

Really??! How on earth do they deal with LBC's and the like, without anyone who knows anything about architectural heritage?

 

[Nemesis]

It's actually very unlikely that one person can put a total block on any project - there are procedures in place to prevent this.

It's often the case however that unsuitable and unsympathetic proposals are put forward and then the owners are surprised when these don't receive consent.

There can never be a set of rules to cover alterations to listed buildings, there can only be guidance and general conservation principles - as all buildings are different. What may be acceptable for one building could totally remove what is signifiicant or interseting in another.

PPG 15 sets out the fact that historic buildings can have their special interest ruined as much by unsuitable alteration as by demolition.

EH is currently re-drafting its proposed Conservation Principles - but again, these can only ever be a set of guidelines, not a rigid check list.

 

[Nemesis]

With regard to CO's - the only thing a local authority has to have is someone to give 'suitable advice' ie to the local authority not to individuals! In some cases this is bought in as consultancy work.

It's not exactly satisfactory I agree. However, there are some local authorities with few listed buildings and Conservation Areas.

 

[borischarlton]

The previous owners of our property were unsympathetic to the structure and used unsuitable materials for the 35 years they were there. I guess it was just ignorance to mix many new materials with old and then wonder why you end up with damp walls then try to fix using more modern materials. All I want to do is to put it back as best I can .
I have gone for de listing ( which, I presume , I will not get ) because there is so little origonal left. It will also make it far easier to restore if I dont have to apply for LBC for more or less every job.

Sell, your joking it will be the home of my dreams if I ever manage to actually finnish it.
Rob

 

[Nemesis]

I hope you won't get it either. It rather depends on why the building is listed of course.

Get a plan together for the whole of the works, and apply for LBC for that.

Many owners are faced with similar aproblems re unympathetic works in the past - but they carry on and carefully repair. I presume the building was listed when you bought?

 

[borischarlton]

Yes it was. Listed in 1979, then extended in 1981. I wonder if it had anything to do with not paying vat for the works?
Rob

 

[Nemesis]

I doubt that - it was probably not listed for any other reason than its national historic and or architectural interest. (Possibly an interesting example of burgage plot development, for example??)

I can't see how it can have been listed to avoid VAT payment on alterations, which must have been given LBC if VAT has been not paid.

If the building has already been altered by extending it, then that makes LBC more of a problem for other works - too many cumulative alterations can ruin a building.

If alterations have happened without LBC - then of course the local authority van take action against you to have things re-instated.

 

[borischarlton]

Actually after a meeting at our property with the C.O. we can do almost all we want, well we have to apply for LBC but we are told we would get it without a problem. Our problem comes with a lath and plaster ceiling in the lounge which is quite literally being held up with wood chip paper. A small part of the ceiling has come down and has revealed beautiful whitewashed beams and floorboards. My request to take the woodchip off and let the ceiling fall down and not replace it, was met with total disdain. I don't like the wood chip, but if I take it off I will end up having to replace the lathe and plaster at huge cost. I have been looking at lime plaster courses but with business and other work on the house it really isn't possible at the moment. We have a similar problem with the walls, more or less every surface is a mixture of concrete render, pink plaster and a small amount of lime all toped off with coats of sandtext!! Think I will be having some fun over the next couple of years!!
Rob

 

[Nemesis]

So because of that you've applied for de-listing?

Bloody hell.

 

[borischarlton]

No. Because of that, and the fact that there is very little left in the property to be listed

 

[Nemesis]

Why was it listed?

Is most of the building now gone? Doesn't sound like it?
Also - although the lime may have parted from the laths, it would be highly unlikely that all the lath is loose from the joists.

It can be repaired.

Stripping back poor quality materials is one thing, but removal of what sound like a historic ceiling is possibly one step too far, and your CO sounds as though that's a problem. Clearly it's part of the development of the building over time - stripping back isn't always sound conservation.

What is EH's advice? EH will have to visit and report. I think the relevant amenity society may also be consulted. The local authority may resist de-listing too - and as I said earlier, there is always the possibility of enforcement action if alterations took place without LBC.

Any application to DCMS for de-listing would not be considered if enforcement action is taking place.

 

[borischarlton]

We have a meeting with EH planned so we will have to see what happens.

"It can be repaired"

Yep it can, but at huge cost. In an ideal world we would all be able to live in fantastic old buildings not interferred with. Most of us have a budget, some sort of time limit and just want to be realistic, after all we are talking peasents cottage not York Minster.

Rob

 

[Nemesis]

Well - if everyone took that view we'd lose many listed buildings. Not all are listed as great architecture, but for other reasons. Like becaise they are peasants cottages. If you knew the building was listed when you bought it, then I'm afraid I have no sympathy at all.

No, we aren't all rich, but we do what we can to protect the buildings for which we are but temporarily custodians, and find out all we can about appropriate methods of care and repair.

I just hope EH says no, and presumably SPAB too.

 

[borischarlton]

"find out all we can about appropriate methods of care and repair."

Thats what I am doing

 

[Nemesis]

And find out too about conservation - and why buildings are listed, to preserve them for the nation.