Greening up 25 million homes

[biffvernon]

Hansen is seemingly still holding out for prevention.

Hmmm. Read http://www.nature.com/climate/2009/0912/full/climate.2009.124.html about Hansen, in this week's Nature.

While Mikhael Gorbochev also understands 350:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...3/mikhail-gorbachev-climate-change-copenhagen

 

[Flyfisher]

At least Hansen is saying the sorts of things that need saying:

"I am sorry to say", he writes, "that most of what politicians are doing on the climate front is greenwashing — their proposals sound good, but they are deceiving you and themselves at the same time."

Hansen is realistic enough, though, to admit that all "the large pools of oil and gas are going to be used...They are owned by countries like Russia and Saudi Arabia, and no [international climate] agreement is going to prevent them from selling those resources."

Sounds like an interesting read; I've added his book to my Christmas list.

I also smiled at this Gorbachev quote:

But, while a runaway climate remains a risk, runaway politics are already a fact. Official negotiations are removed from reality.

 

[TimM]

I certainly wouldn't count myself as a 'Green'. Guardian reading, muesli eating, yes. I actually think that 'cap and trade' is the only way we're going to deal with the realities of climate change - and we will be forced to deal with it whether we like it or not. By trying to limit future emissions (note: the political reality and most of the green movement already accept that there will be temperature rise - can we limit it to 2 C?) now we can hopefully make the sacrifices (if that's what they are) more palatable to Western consumers as well as those in the developing world who are actually going to lose most. I don't think any one is criticising anyone, and, I'm not certainly (well done Joce, keep those lights off). Also, lets face it, many of the changes we need to make will improve life - lets not forget how high the CO2 emissions of cement are, how destructive to the historic built environment mass car ownership is, how the economics of car clubs, high speed train travel and local shops could so nearly be made to add up, if the cost of fossil fuels wasn't being cross-subsidised by the environment.

 

[Flyfisher]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8393081.stm[/url] "]
But here's the rub. The company has also found that the richest constituencies... are also the most polluting.

Surprise, surprise. Spend more, consume more, pollute more. Hardly rocket science is it?

 

[biffvernon]

New Scientist has just published this particularly clear account. If you don't understand this there really is little hope.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18238-why-theres-no-sign-of-a-climate-conspiracy-in-hacked-emails.html

 

[Flyfisher]

It may not be a science issue but it sure is a PR/political issue.

 

[biffvernon]

And it looks like the politicians are weighing in:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/04/flat-earth-climate-change-copenhagen

Now our Prime Minister is calling the deniers flat-earthers.
Me and Gordon both

But tonight the prime minister, his environment secretary, Ed Miliband, and Ed Markey, the man who co-authored the US climate change bill, joined forces to condemn the sceptics.

"With only days to go before Copenhagen we mustn't be distracted by the behind-the-times, anti-science, flat-earth climate sceptics," Brown told the Guardian. "We know the science. We know what we must do. We must now act and close the 5bn-tonne gap. That will seal the deal."

According to the government adviser Sir Nicholas Stern, 10bn tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions must be taken out of the atmosphere by 2020. So far agreement is in place for only half of that amount.

Ed Miliband gave his most damning assessment of the sceptics yet, describing them as "dangerous and deceitful".

He said: "The approach of the climate saboteurs is to misuse data and mislead people. The sceptics are playing politics with science in a dangerous and deceitful manner. There is no easy way out of tackling climate change despite what they would have us believe. The evidence is clear and the time we have to act is short. To abandon this process now would lead to misery and catastrophe for millions."

 

[biffvernon]

I'm listenning to massive conference call to Ed Miliband. He is talking soooo much good sense. Summary live on http://twitter.com/EdMilibandMP now.

 

[Jon Maine]

It is no surprise to see politicians defending the system of new things raped from the earths resources for profit because it does not fit in with the world that supports more wealthy people higher up the ladder. I still cant believe the recycling collections are undertaken by lorries here rather than unemployed people with rickshaws.....

I supposed they don't want to produce standardised bottles we wash our selves and refill because it is not good for marketing of Coca Cola and alike corporations although I am sure a positive political/marketing spin could be placed upon that too.

There are so many things that could be implemented immediately that I cant understand why they are not being done.

 

[biffvernon]

You're clearly not talking about Miliband.

 

[Jon Maine]

You're clearly not talking about Miliband.

You are correct just generally, am watching your comments on ED and hope that he puts his money where his mouth is.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Biff - you need to get the politicians out of the debate to progress the agenda (although how decisions are then taken is a dilemma!).

Every time I see Brown declaring sceptics to be "flat-earthers" and "anti-science", it turns me further off the cause. Brown is so discredited it seems that if he is *for* something, the natural position to take is the opposing view.

 

[christianb]

Poor old Ed Miliband: New Labour's sacrificial lamb to the weird-beards and anarchic nose-ringers. Just seen the guy on the news, complete with hippy coloured scarf, talking in a voice that could only have been fashioned in the Tony Blair school of diction.

And politicians wonder why they're so ridiculed.

 

[christianb]

... and he's not even as big a twonk as his reptilian brother.

 

[biffvernon]

Never mind the facts, just be as rude about the messenger as you can, eh?

As far as I know both Milibands have understood the seriousness of both global warming and peak oil for quite a long while. I think it's the first time Brown has publicly described the climate deniers as flat-earthers, and about time too. Or do you know otherwise?

 

[middi]

There was a man that believed the earth was flat, he was obsessed. The doctor said he needed to have a clearer vision about the earth,

He was so narrow minded that he took the advise, litterally, so started collecting sight glasses. He had them all, then a friend feeling sorry for him suggested they go half way around the world to a place where he could get glasses to see things clearer. He immediately remarked that as the earth was flat how could they possibly go " around" it,and that it may just be a ploy to take his mind off of his stubborn obsessive nature.
He finally convinced himself that there was nothing to loose and tagged along if only to prove that his friend was wrong.

They arrived at this rather obscure and remote part of the world at a glasses shop, the owner suggested he should try on this " special" pair of spectacles and look at the two female asistants in the shop, he did, "BLIMEY" ,he shouted. everytime I put these glasses on those girls appear completely naked. He paid a large amount of money and took the glasses , he forgot about the world problems and beamed all the way home. He rushed straight home to surprise his wife with those "specials", slowly opened the door and burst in.

At this point his wife and best man jumped up off of the settee and appeared completely naked, he kept putting the glasses on and then of and they appeared always naked , he screamed " BAS****S, they have ripped me off, THESE B***DY glasses have already broken and run straight around to his friend and explained.

His friend said " you will never be able to see, your'e effing blind since birth"