Grade 2 listed triple glaze units

[renewablejohn]

I have a grade 2 listed farmhouse approx 1650. Date stone when extended and weavers wing put on 1721 with 72 windows nearly all needing to be replaced due to softwood frames which the previous owner put in are now rotting. We have one original leaded glazed church style window in the 1721 extension. This window has no wooden frame and is plastered on the inside and has what looks like putty on the outside sealing it into the stone mullion.We are looking to replace the rotten with triple glazed units sealed in a similar fashion to the original window and then put fake lead on the outside to match the original square leaded window. At present all windows have fake lead but in a diamond pattern apart from the original window and the two windows directly below the original window which have a square pattern. Another Grade 2 house less than a mile away has already replaced there windows in this manner and it has made a tremendous difference on heat loss. Knowing how awkward our CO is he will insist on using oak do I have any grounds to insist that the windows are replaced in the same manner as the original but in triple glazed units. Obviously we will keep the original as is. House is 2 foot thick walls with stone mullions.

 

[middi]

You have to ask your CO to find out what he/she is looking for. As to the CO insisting windows to be made in oak I doubt very much this will be a condition if they have to be painted. TRIPLE glazing ?, fake lead bars?, painted oak windows?, Your CO has to be consulted before you start worrying about it.

 

[andrew gayton]

I very much doubt that you will get the benefit of listed building consent for such works. Part L requirements do not over ride listed building status.

 

[Nemesis]

None of what you are proposing sounds very sympathetic to the building I have to say - and I seriously doubt the triple glazing will make a vast amount of difference to heat loss, over well made, sympathetically designed windows which fit well and have draughtproofing.

CO's - not usually awkward but doing their job, which is preservation of what is interesting about historic buildings.

Stick on lead fakery is a really bad idea, IMHO.

 

[renewablejohn]

The CO in the area is new to the job. The previous holder of the job insisted that we should have oak frames but the width of the frames would be determined by the width of the opening window so that all windows would look the same. The width between the mullions is only 13 inches and the glass width is 9 inches so you can appreciate how much less light we have compared to when the house was built without any wooden frames. I do not see how putting in oak which is not original to the house would enhance the building when we have the evidence to say that leaded glass direct into the mullions was the original way of glazing the house.As for fake lead I detest the stuff anyway but obviously a CO in the past has insisted that the fake lead be applied to blend in with the original window.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, you have had advice from a very good CO here (Andrew) but my advice is to contact your own CO and have an informal chat and see what options he/she thinks you have. He may be open to suggestions and may also be able to make suggestions.

So much will be compromise. Thin metal frames may be one way to get max light, you can get very good ones now which can be draughtproofed.

Have a chat to SPAB (free helpline) and see what suggestions SPAB can make also.

Here's one suggestion:

http://www.bronzecasements.com/?gclid=CKjO0LHAm5ICFRZgMAodqDc47g

see the Heritage System


and Jon at the wonderful Merchant's House in Shepton Mallet I know had new metal framed windows fitted - contact him to see how they are performing?

http://www.merchants-house.co.uk/index.htm

 

[andrew gayton]

could you post some photographs of the building please?

 

[renewablejohn]

on listed building site

http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/details/default.aspx?id=440672

 

[andrew gayton]

I would suggest a mix of direct glazing and metal opening lights. there are good 2ndry d.g solutions available now to help with energy conservation.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

The CO in the area is new to the job. The previous holder of the job insisted that we should have oak frames but the width of the frames would be determined by the width of the opening window so that all windows would look the same. The width between the mullions is only 13 inches and the glass width is 9 inches so you can appreciate how much less light we have compared to when the house was built without any wooden frames. I do not see how putting in oak which is not original to the house would enhance the building when we have the evidence to say that leaded glass direct into the mullions was the original way of glazing the house.As for fake lead I detest the stuff anyway but obviously a CO in the past has insisted that the fake lead be applied to blend in with the original window.

Having seen the Images of England photo I find it inconceivable that any CO with the slightest knowledge of historic buildings would insist on adding oak frames to stone-mullioned windows of the proportions shown.

But then the NW is a bit of a Land that Conservation Forgot, as I am all too painfully reminded whenever I go back up to see my folks.

 

[renewablejohn]

we were looking at a whole house ventilation system which would alleviate the need for opening windows.

 

[Nemesis]

What sort of internal alterations would be required to do that?

What's actually wrong with windows which open?

It seems though that gutters and windows are not all you have planned - I suggest possibly you take the advice of your CO as stated in your other thread and hire a conservation architect, have plans properly prepared, and apply for LBC consent.

 

[renewablejohn]

Gareth

It is the same authority involved with the Darwen thread talk about double standards


Nemesis

Internal alterations minimal as the ventilation unit and circulating pipes are in the insulated loft space. Only small grille on floor and ceiling will be on view.

Opening windows equals draughts as we live on a hilltop

No point in putting in a wish list of the grand scheme if the finance is not there to allow you to carry out the works within the timescale of the LBC. better to have 5 projects over 10 years rather than one grand design which you cannot even afford the architects fee. Ie replace gutters, fit 72 windows, fit 4 en-suites, fit out granny annexe, reinstate 20 weavers windows,

 

[Nemesis]

LBC has no time limit.

If you urgently need to put something temporary in place re the missing guttering, I'd call the CO and discuss, but as far as more major replacing is concerned, like for lke is really for smallish repairs in a similar material and manner to what already exists.

Any change needs LBC and the hoops have to be gone through, I'm afraid.

I'd also check that non opening windows will be allowed! In the event of a fire etc how will you get out?

Re the Darwen thread - blame the government and its HMR.

 

[renewablejohn]

Nemesis

Even I cannot fit through a nine inch window

 

[Nemesis]

If your other system fails, how will you be able to ventilate?

I'd check with building regs that totally sealed windows are OK. I appreciate that Part L can be waived, but...

Also worth considering resale issues.

 

[biffvernon]

If all the windows are fixed shut how do you throw them open on a spring morning to smell the fresh air and hear the birdsong?

 

[Flyfisher]

Indeed . . . or leave them wide open during sultry summer nights?

 

[renewablejohn]

It is only the old mullion windows which will be fixed. We obviously have opening windows in the later kitchen extension and dining room extension. We also have a chimney in both downstairs rooms and one upstairs room so there will always be air circulation even with the ventilation system turned off. Our problem at the moment is to many draughts as the wind is coming through the 2 foot thick stone walls and into the house at skirting board level as the previous owners replaced the plastered skirtings by wooden skirting boards but in the process hacked off the plaster leaving bare stone walls which the wind goes straight through. The wooden skirtings have now to be replaced as they are softwood and full of woodworm due to the previous owner not using treated timber. We will look to put back the plastered skirting subject to our CO approval.

Flyfisher

What sultry nights?? Its flipping freezing here with snow on its way.

 

[biffvernon]

I still think your best bet is to go for the steel windows made by The Cotswold Casement Company. They are going to look the closest thing to the original windows and you get the option of double glazing without it looking silly.