Gap between floorboards and wall

[Longdogs]

Hi everyone.

I'm new to the forum although have been reading posts on and off for some time now. I'm hoping to get some advice from you all and hopefully will be able to give advice based on my experiences. I am also a plumber/bathroom fitter so might be able to help out in those areas in the future too.

I live in a Victorian terraced house built in 1882. In my living room, I have a suspended floor. I have removed the old skirting which was rotten and crumbling due to woodworm. All damp issues have hopefully been sorted now and repairs/ treatments carried out on timbers.

I want to lay a floating engineered wood floor and want the new skirting to go over the top to cover the expansion gap. The original skirting was nailed to wooden wedges which I have now replaced with battens. There is a gap of about an inch between the floorboards and the brick walls and at the moment the cold air from under the floor is blasting through this gap. When the new skirting is fitted, there will be a space of about an inch behind it.

My question is: Can I insulate this gap to stop the cold air getting behind the new skirting OR is there meant to be air behind the skirting to allow 'breathing?'

I can't seem to find a conclusive answer the this question anywhere, so any advice would be most appreciated.

Thank you in advance

 

[88v8]

The plaster would have been two coat.
First, the wedges were put it - first fixings - then the bottom coat of hair plaster, then the finish coat and then as part of the second fixings, the skirting was affixed to the wedges such that it sat directly on the plaster. As you suspect, there should be no gap. What has happened to your plaster?

Ivor

 

[Toby Newell]

Hi Longdog

I do floor and plumbers are my nemesis... personally I have never seen any insulation behind skirting as you say and I work in mostly period properties.

I would tend to er on the side of caution as older houses were meant to breathe especially if you have damp problems which may not have been 100% cured.

Welcome to the forum, I believe there are one or two damp specialist surveyors on here, so be patient and I'm sure you can get some professional advice.

 

[Longdogs]

The plaster would have been two coat.
First, the wedges were put it - first fixings - then the bottom coat of hair plaster, then the finish coat and then as part of the second fixings, the skirting was affixed to the wedges such that it sat directly on the plaster. As you suspect, there should be no gap. What has happened to your plaster?

Ivor

Thanks Ivor.

Sorry, a bit difficult to explain but the plaster is ok and as you say is two coats. the skirting, when re-affixed would sit level with the plaster. This is ok because I can seal along the top edge. My concern though is that there would be cold air circulating behind the skirting (which is 220mm high - so a large area) around the whole room which I guess would not help in keeping the room warm.

Thanks

 

[Longdogs]

Hi Longdog

I do floor and plumbers are my nemesis... personally I have never seen any insulation behind skirting as you say and I work in mostly period properties.

I would tend to er on the side of caution as older houses were meant to breathe especially if you have damp problems which may not have been 100% cured.

Welcome to the forum, I believe there are one or two damp specialist surveyors on here, so be patient and I'm sure you can get some professional advice.

Thanks Toby.

Yes, my guess is that the gap is there for a reason and is to prevent the boards coming into contact with any dampness in the brick wall. When fitting the new skirting (which has been specially machined to match the original) I am considering fixing a thin self adhesive draught excluder strip on the bottom edge (the skirting is flat bottomed and 30mm thick) so that it stops any draughts but allows the floating floor to expand and contract. Does that sound reasonable? I realise that Victorian houses were not designed with floating floors in mind.

I would be interested to know why plumbers are your nemesis. As a plumber, my nemesis is normally the plasterer who covers all my lovely new pipes and fittings in plaster.

 

[Toby Newell]

Thanks Toby.

Yes, my guess is that the gap is there for a reason and is to prevent the boards coming into contact with any dampness in the brick wall. When fitting the new skirting (which has been specially machined to match the original) I am considering fixing a thin self adhesive draught excluder strip on the bottom edge (the skirting is flat bottomed and 30mm thick) so that it stops any draughts but allows the floating floor to expand and contract. Does that sound reasonable? I realise that Victorian houses were not designed with floating floors in mind.

I would be interested to know why plumbers are your nemesis. As a plumber, my nemesis is normally the plasterer who covers all my lovely new pipes and fittings in plaster.

The wood just needs room to move, the draught excluder sounds a bit drastic though! Not sure that look is going to catch on. As long as you have 15mm or so at each end with engineered flooring you should be ok.

I really think you should wait until a damp surveyor shows up, I am sure there was one on here before, Boniface I think. They could tell you whether any gap filling insulation could wick moisture, affect the dew point etc.

Plumbers are normally my nemesis because they often gently remove floorboards with crowbars, cut them with angle grinders or even munch cut them with spade bits and refit them with cheap plasterboard screws, I spend endless weeks of my life every year on repairing or replacing previously perfectly acceptable flooring due to the moronic hand of 'the plumber' who beats 'the sparks' by some margin. I am sure you don't do that though

 

[Longdogs]

Thanks Toby.

Yes, my guess is that the gap is there for a reason and is to prevent the boards coming into contact with any dampness in the brick wall. When fitting the new skirting (which has been specially machined to match the original) I am considering fixing a thin self adhesive draught excluder strip on the bottom edge (the skirting is flat bottomed and 30mm thick) so that it stops any draughts but allows the floating floor to expand and contract. Does that sound reasonable? I realise that Victorian houses were not designed with floating floors in mind.

I would be interested to know why plumbers are your nemesis. As a plumber, my nemesis is normally the plasterer who covers all my lovely new pipes and fittings in plaster.

The wood just needs room to move, the draught excluder sounds a bit drastic though! Not sure that look is going to catch on. As long as you have 15mm or so at each end with engineered flooring you should be ok.

I really think you should wait until a damp surveyor shows up, I am sure there was one on here before, Boniface I think. They could tell you whether any gap filling insulation could wick moisture, affect the dew point etc.

Plumbers are normally my nemesis because they often gently remove floorboards with crowbars, cut them with angle grinders or even munch cut them with spade bits and refit them with cheap plasterboard screws, I spend endless weeks of my life every year on repairing or replacing previously perfectly acceptable flooring due to the moronic hand of 'the plumber' who beats 'the sparks' by some margin. I am sure you don't do that though

Thanks, yes, I will hang on for some more advice from the 'damp' guys.

I know what you mean about damaging floorboards. I am probably too far the other way in that I hate removing anything because I don't want to make a mess or cause damage. Unfortunately when I removed my living room carpet, my floorboards were exactly as you describe. Someone had already butchered them to fit new heating pipes - all in plastic - no insulation - no pipe clips. There were boards of different thicknesses and yes, the dreaded plasterboard screws.

It's always interesting to hear from other trades though.

 

[TheRoost]

An inch gap between the ends of the boards and the wall does sound a bit large. Here the ends of the boards are very rough cut but probably 1/4" to 1/2" away from the wall. Surely draughts will only happen if there is a variable gap between the underside of the skirt and the new flooring, depending on how flat the floor you are laying on top on is. Somewhere I've seen V-section seals for variable gaps between floorboards, they are pushed into place with a blunt blade or credit card etc. maybe these would be of use for skirting board gaps.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I can't really answer based on experience of doing the job you describe, but I know roughly what you are talking about as your house sounds a lot like mine. In my house I truly believe that the skirting was attached to the wall using wooden wall plugs as you describe before plastering. I think this as when I have taken the skirting off the plaster does not extend below the board by much at all. Om you r house my thinking is that there could have been plaster behind the skirting, or there could have been a gap behind the skirting, I don't suppose either are great insulators, but air would be better than plaster especially if the plaster is a bit damp. If you put some kind of squashy draught excluder on the skirting bottom edge, I can't see that being a problem. The floor will still be able to move, and as the floor will not be sealed to the wall, air will be able to get to the back of the skirtings from the under floor ventialtion, which is arguably good if you are not totally confident in the dryness of the wall. I myself have pondered this, and have seen a squahy foam cord that is made from the material that expanding ear plugs are made from that can be squashed and fitted into the gap, where it will expand filling the gap. I though this would be a good idea to stop draughts as it is non adhesive and reversible if need be. If your skirtings are not get fitted then you have more options to solve this issue in a vareiety of ways, draught excluder on the bottom edge being one of them!!!

 

[DJH]

Oh dear...early on in my former life before I got a conscience I'm afraid I too was a floorboard butcher but, when I got older and worked for myself and didn't have the same time pressures from an impatient boss, I took greater care when lifting boards.

Those were the days before power tools were within my budget and battery tools were non existent so I had a tongue splitter ( a thin sharp wheel which was pushed along with your foot) to cut the tongue off one side of the boards (t & G boards of course) . I used to punch the nails partially through the boards and then lever them up with a thin bolster type chisel. The semi protruding nails could then be pulled from the joists and the original holes in the boards used when refixing them.

Sounds simple but still many pit falls such as grit and dirt between the boards that either blunted the wheel or diverted it off onto the surface of the adjoining one... . Punching the nails in wasn't without it's hazards either especially if electric cables passing through the joists below were in the top third of the joist... :shock:

To my eternal shame I also joined in when old sanitary ware which had been removed was used as targets for bricks with great excitement and cheering when the first brick landed on target...

 

[Longdogs]

I am still looking to see if there is a 'thanks' button on the forum but thank you for your replies.

 

[MatthewC]

Plumbers are normally my nemesis because they often gently remove floorboards with crowbars, cut them with angle grinders or even munch cut them with spade bits and refit them with cheap plasterboard screws, I spend endless weeks of my life every year on repairing or replacing previously perfectly acceptable flooring due to the moronic hand of 'the plumber' who beats 'the sparks' by some margin. I am sure you don't do that though

In my house it was the sparky who really messed the floor up, but possibly he just got there before the plumber! He just had no idea about lifting floorboards and was amazed when I showed him that it was perfectly possible even for me to do it with minimal damage. However, my favourite was when he loosened the skirting board to chase a cable behind it, thus allowing the gap to fill up with the now loose plaster...

 

[Roger H]

Is the gap fully hidden when the skirting is on? If so, why not just stuff some loft insulation down the gap? Should survive fractional occassional moisture ok, will deaden drafts.

 

[Longdogs]

Is the gap fully hidden when the skirting is on? If so, why not just stuff some loft insulation down the gap? Should survive fractional occassional moisture ok, will deaden drafts.

yes the gap will be fully hidden when the skirting is fitted and that was my original idea, to stuff some kind of insulation behind but was concerned that any moisture from the wall would cross over to the new wood floor. This is all new to me as my previous house was 1960's - no character but easy.

 

[chuckey]

As you are lifting the floorboards you should fit insulation under the joists. This, if done properly will exclude the drafts. Fit your new flooring with a smaller gap at the walls. The reason for the large gap is that if the floorboards were fitted to tightly, if the wall ran out the board being fitted would have to be taken away and recut. The plaster does not go down to the floor boards, cos' there's no reason for it to do so. The skirting board cover everything.
Frank

 

[Toby Newell]

Thanks Toby.

Yes, my guess is that the gap is there for a reason and is to prevent the boards coming into contact with any dampness in the brick wall. When fitting the new skirting (which has been specially machined to match the original) I am considering fixing a thin self adhesive draught excluder strip on the bottom edge (the skirting is flat bottomed and 30mm thick) so that it stops any draughts but allows the floating floor to expand and contract. Does that sound reasonable? I realise that Victorian houses were not designed with floating floors in mind.

I would be interested to know why plumbers are your nemesis. As a plumber, my nemesis is normally the plasterer who covers all my lovely new pipes and fittings in plaster.

The wood just needs room to move, the draught excluder sounds a bit drastic though! Not sure that look is going to catch on. As long as you have 15mm or so at each end with engineered flooring you should be ok.

I really think you should wait until a damp surveyor shows up, I am sure there was one on here before, Boniface I think. They could tell you whether any gap filling insulation could wick moisture, affect the dew point etc.

Plumbers are normally my nemesis because they often gently remove floorboards with crowbars, cut them with angle grinders or even munch cut them with spade bits and refit them with cheap plasterboard screws, I spend endless weeks of my life every year on repairing or replacing previously perfectly acceptable flooring due to the moronic hand of 'the plumber' who beats 'the sparks' by some margin. I am sure you don't do that though

Thanks, yes, I will hang on for some more advice from the 'damp' guys.

I know what you mean about damaging floorboards. I am probably too far the other way in that I hate removing anything because I don't want to make a mess or cause damage. Unfortunately when I removed my living room carpet, my floorboards were exactly as you describe. Someone had already butchered them to fit new heating pipes - all in plastic - no insulation - no pipe clips. There were boards of different thicknesses and yes, the dreaded plasterboard screws.

It's always interesting to hear from other trades though.

A plumber who is scared to remove floorboards? Can I have your card?

Actually, really if you are in or around London I don't have any plumbers I can recommend.

 

[Longdogs]

No sorry, I have recently moved away from the SE and am currently having time off to work on the house (income courtesy of Mrs Longdogs). I really do hate it when trades are slap-dash though, it winds me up no end. I always attempt to get everything perfect (although I realise that is not always possible). I often spend uncharged time going the extra mile and making everything look nice. I suppose that's why I am not one of those rich plumbers that we all hear about.