FTB advice - survey for 16C cottage?

[Solar]

Hi folks. Had an offer accepted for a grade 2 listed timber framed cottage in sunny Essex. The prior owners looked after it well for the last 40 years and there were no apparent signs of damp. One of the bedroom floors has a slope you could ski down and there’s a bowed wall in the cellar (wall shared with a pub). The bits of the roof I could see looked ok.

I’m not sure what to think about getting a survey done. Lender doesn’t require it. EA advised not to bother on the basis that that it’s stood there for maybe 500 years already. I see online a lot of warnings about RICS surveys being a waste of time for old buildings.

So… is a heritage survey a good idea? Or some sort of structural engineer’s report? Any advice would be very welcome.

 

[Nsar1]

Hi folks. Had an offer accepted for a grade 2 listed timber framed cottage in sunny Essex. The prior owners looked after it well for the last 40 years and there were no apparent signs of damp. One of the bedroom floors has a slope you could ski down and there’s a bowed wall in the cellar (wall shared with a pub). The bits of the roof I could see looked ok.

I’m not sure what to think about getting a survey done. Lender doesn’t require it. EA advised not to bother on the basis that that it’s stood there for maybe 500 years already. I see online a lot of warnings about RICS surveys being a waste of time for old buildings.

So… is a heritage survey a good idea? Or some sort of structural engineer’s report? Any advice would be very welcome.

An electrical installation condition survey might be worth it. Most qualified electricians will do one for you.

 

[Solar]

Thanks for commenting. The place was rented out for last couple of years so electrics are modern (RCDs) and were inspected last year (as was gas boiler)

 

[TudorCottage]

We used a ‘specialist’ surveyor on our place when we bought it.

A bit scary when his 100+ page report hit my inbox. 99% of it was positive and the 1% negative wasn’t particularly scary.

3 years later and nothing untoward has shown up.
With hindsight I think that is probably more luck than judgement. Unless they do a Peter Ward (specialist surveyor) and start poking sharp objects into various places I think they are limited to what they can find.

Having said that I would always pay a bit extra for a surveyor that has experience with older properties at least they should spot any glaring issues.

 

[Kearn]

Hi folks. Had an offer accepted for a grade 2 listed timber framed cottage in sunny Essex. The prior owners looked after it well for the last 40 years and there were no apparent signs of damp. One of the bedroom floors has a slope you could ski down and there’s a bowed wall in the cellar (wall shared with a pub). The bits of the roof I could see looked ok.

I’m not sure what to think about getting a survey done. Lender doesn’t require it. EA advised not to bother on the basis that that it’s stood there for maybe 500 years already. I see online a lot of warnings about RICS surveys being a waste of time for old buildings.

So… is a heritage survey a good idea? Or some sort of structural engineer’s report? Any advice would be very welcome.

Not sure who EA is, but their advice isn’t great. It’s not the 500 years that is relevant, it’s the last 50 or so… where major damage takes place. The tie beam on our gable was present in 1981, last year when I stripped off about 6” of structural cement render, it was no longer a single piece of timber.

An old timber framed house is amazing, but they can equally be absolute money pits, and that’s once you’ve found a structural conservation framer, or two, capable and available to put things right.

You’re right, nobody at RICS will understand your future home. A structural engineer isn’t worth it either, as few understand frames as they cannot be calculated, measured and predicted and they are half empty in approach with much caution.
Your best bet is finding that framer asap, and assessing the building with them - the frame and associated issues is where all the repairs, inconvenience and cost will lie.

Links to listing, photos, details of finishes inside and out will help. Let’s hope it’s not slathered in cement render and plastic paint externally, bookended with gypsum and Dulux internally, or worse still, tanked.
How much frame is visible in/out, roof structure intact/original? Frame cut through for later bigger windows/doorways? what’s the ground levels like in/out, rainwater goods, roof covering and condition….

Stephen Boniface used to be the go to in your area for timber heritage surveying, but I believe he may have hung up his boots. Worth reaching out and seeing who he’d recommend.

Buying an old timber framed house, especially one that isn’t detached that you’re therefore not 100% in control of, without going in thoroughly eyes open and aware can be a very costly surprise. Not always, but a couple have grand spent now it’s a drop in the overhead to the potential 10s/100s you could uncover.

 

[Solar]

Many thanks @TudorCottage @Kearn -

Here’s a link - frame is visible throughout https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/156869702

 

[Michael55]

EA advised not to bother on the basis that that it’s stood there for maybe 500 years already.

I'd probably report this to their governing organisation because it sounds like they just want to turn you over ASAP to get their commission and dissuading you from a survey could be malicious.

 

[Solar]

I might have given the wrong impression - to be fair to the EA he was clear these were his personal thoughts not a professional opinion.

 

[Michael55]

he's there in a professional role. his 'personal' thoughts are his professional thoughts.

 

[jamest]

Nice little place. Problem with surveying it properly are the front and rear elevations of the original structure which have been rendered. The frame members most at risk of decay are those on the these rendered elevations (the others form internal walls) and from the photos it looks as if you can't see the frame members on the external elevations internally. It's not very clear, but the white painted 'surround' on the first floor front external wall could be frame members and the floor is slightly jettied, so some framing may be accessible from beneath. No surveyor, heritage or not, will be able to tell you anything about hidden frame members and unless there is some kind of access, the surveyor would be guessing. It might be perfectly fine, it might not be. If the render is cement and cracked, then the frame beneath is more likely to have suffered damage. If it is cement, then at least a surveyor who knows their stuff will point out the inappropriateness and likely risk of damage to the framing - could be grounds for a reduction to your offer!

The bowed cellar wall would worry me, but if image 3 on the rightmove page is the cellar room, it's hardly visible. Might be useful to have a professional opinion on it though, to be on the safe side.

Regarding the sloping floor, it is clear in image 6 that the ceiling above the front door is sloping significantly to the left (in the image). I would expect this to be visible externally in the jettying. Image 1 suggests that it might be, so I looked on streetview and it appears that the first floor jetty follows the angle of the pavement/road for all three houses in that part of the terrace (from yours to two doors down, all of which look to be of the same vintage). This would mean that all the first floor front bedrooms of all three properties are sloped in the same way as the road is (down hill). Is that right? Probably not something to worry about if it is.

 

[fernicarry]

The estate agent represents the interests of the seller/landlord and no one else. Never forget that.

 

[Solar]

Thanks @jamest - thought the same about the jetty following the angle of the street meaning the slope likely not a concern.

Point taken about the render possibly causing / hiding damage to the timber. This look seems to be very common in the village. On the lookout now for a suitable surveyor!