floorboards - screws or nails?

[Penners]

If I were a millionaire I'd use Spax screws all the time. But I ain't.

Some of the self-piloting screws sold by Scr*wfix are almost as good, I reckon, and a whole lot cheaper.

 

[middi]

The "turbogold" screws are a little more expensive than the average in that range.
They are zinc plated with a yellow coating and double corrosion resistant.

They cost £4.37 for 100 , using the 5.0x70 for the average 25mm boards.

-------REf. no. 15276-81 from screwfix Tel. 0500 41 41 41 -----

I find them really good for speed work and very very strong.

BUT:-
As Biff and the others have suggested, they are not suitable for use on oak, especially if is green oak. Also they not as pleasing to see as "chunky" slotted brass screws are, especially in a period property.

 

[biffvernon]

Perhaps one of my dislikes of using cross-headed screws in old buildings is that they shout out saying "I'm new!". Stainless steel and the various coatings tend to stay shiny. Brass gradually tarnishes in the way of things in old buildings.

Yes, brass is not so strong. There have been many times that I've twisted a brass screw to destruction and had to drill it out. You have to take care with predrilling the hole and then not put too much force on a thin screw.

Am I the only person left on the planet without an electric screwdriver?

 

[CHRIS]

Thanks, I will get on the website and put an order in.

I hope to save a bit of cash as I seem to give my entire wages to R£$%&^7S IN S-Walden.

 

[Penners]

Perhaps one of my dislikes of using cross-headed screws in old buildings is that they shout out saying "I'm new!".

Is this where we start a whole new discussion on the subject of "honest" repairs?!

If you're encouraged to use new, green oak to repair historic oak frame buildings (instead of introducing false history by using reclaimed beams), shouldn't you also use modern screws instead of "old" slothead ones?

 

[Ian Bond]

If you're encouraged to use new, green oak to repair historic oak frame buildings (instead of introducing false history by using reclaimed beams), shouldn't you also use modern screws instead of "old" slothead ones

Whenever I try to resolve that particular conundrum, my head hurts.

I repair lath and plaster like with like, where I can using the proper materials (not plasterboard).

The modern additions to my house such as electrics are mostly honest, i.e. plain plastic switches and sockets instead of 'Georgian' rope edged brass ones

But then I've got 'repro' gasolier style electric wall lamps in narrow corridors, and not up-to-date modern fittings.

I'm not trying to make my new floorboards look old by bashing them deliberately or staining them. Rather, I leave them unvarnished and let my DIY work and mucky boots do the rest - they blend in gradually that way.

I do prefer to use slot head screws whereever they are visible, which makes the job much harder, but I feel they have a more traditional look.

I'm just funny that way. I take your point though, Penners, maybe posi-drive screws are and honest modern repair? Now my heads hurting again - back to work!

 

[Penners]

plain plastic switches and sockets instead of 'Georgian' rope edged brass ones

Well, Ian, I agree that one has to draw the line somewhere!

Seriously, though, I think there's a distinction to be made between the structure of a building, and the current owner's personal "cosmetic" taste. Things like internal fittings, decor, etc. are IMO a different matter from the essential components of the structure.

I witnessed the change in approach by CO's from the old "make it look old" approach to today's "honesty" approach. The first project I undertook was about 30+ years ago - a small 15th century cottage on the Suffolk/Essex border. The CO insisted that any repairs I made to the frame had to be done in reclaimed old oak, in order to "blend in". When it came to my next project, about 7 years later, the CO insisted that I use new, green oak, to differentiate between the original frame and my new repairs.

I'm actually a big fan of this approach, if only for reasons of vanity! I like to be able to see my own work against the background of the original building. I'm so ashamed!

 

[Ian Bond]

Fair point about structure versus decor.

The Hugh Lander books impressed on me that when you finished working on a room, and it looks as though you haven't touched it, then the result is a success. In other words, don't straighten everything up and over-restore things so they look new.

In fact Mr Lander himself confessed to fakery when repairing a roof so that the ridge kept its characteristic wobbliness.

On the other hand, I can see the case for good honest repairs making sense. I've seen this done in masonry and wood repairs with great success. You can see immediatley where the new bits are, and therefore identify the original fabric as authentic.

I suppose the trick is knowing where to stop with your repairs so that you keep as much as possible of the original fabric. Easier said than done. I try to get my plastering to blend in with the uneven original stuff - too flat and it looks awful, which is great for me as I don't do flat plastering anyway. I call it skill others might not be so charitable.

And it is nice to be able to show off your work, too!

 

[Paul Hopper]

Sorry but only just read this thread, so I am a bit on the late side.. I absolutely support the screw it down department, cut brads may disappear into the boards but when the plumber wants to lift the board to replace a pipe etc It rips all *** out of the board.
Posidriv is ok if u use an electric driver (who does'nt?) but I think the perfectionists would prefer conventional, possibly coated screws with a thin coat of candlewax to help you screw them in. I asked our CO when we did the one upstairs room (the Biggest would'nt you know!)he advised "steel" screws hand driven and coated with wax.There is another advantage with screws though. if you live in a barn like ours dating back to the dark ages,in places, nothing is ever level, So screwing in allows you to pack under to bring the boards uplevel, A nail or brad can eventually squeak.

 

[Ian Bond]

Thanks for that, Paul.

Yes, I am a perfectionist, which is probably why my house is a complete wreck (and I'm taking 4 times longer than I should over each job)

So slotted steel screws, zinc coated and rubbed with wax it is!

I have managed to lever up nailed boards before with minimal damage, but then again I take great care. Unfortunately people who'd worked on the house before ran amok with circular saws. Boards cut across in the middle of joists, and large gaps everywhere due to edges being sawn off - not much left of the original floor sadly.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Paul Hopper]

Good luck Ian, any of the ideas posted here will serve quite well, even for those who can afford gold screws, (must be ever so soft!) I prefer the conventional head screw as I see removing and refixing boards as something to be done gently rather than the slosh it in with a Manchester Screwdriver brigade (hammer)
Wnen we were in Suffolk we were blessed with metal tongued floorboards! these were literally impossible to get up without major destruction, Thank goodness I haven't had to do that since! Don't worry about how long it all takes you..it is a voyage of discovery, I started our present ruin in the late 1970's and we are still at it..(the restoration I mean.)

 

[Ian Bond]

Thanks for that Paul.

I prefer the conventional head screw as I see removing and refixing boards as something to be done gently rather than the slosh it in with a Manchester Screwdriver brigade (hammer

How did you know I was a Mancunian?! (defected to Yorkshire 20 years ago)

I've never come across metal tongues in floors, surely not in Lavenham ?(love the place, used to visit when I lived in the Essex/Suffolk borders).

The remnants of my original bedroom floors are plain softwood planks 1 1/4 inch thick. Plenty of gaps but easier to lift compared with the t&g. It's hard enough work lifting wood t&g carefully (no circular sawing) - metal tongues sound like a nightmare.

Ian

 

[Paul Hopper]

For anyone interested these floors do not just exist in Norfolk and suffolk, When I was a practicing Surveyor I found them in Yorkshire and even in parts of Lancashire, they tended to be in the more upmarket buildings often in oak boards and were comprised of a 2 inch wide metal tongue set into the adjoining board. They were almost impossible to remove without destruction of the entire board, As I recall we found some in Stratford on Avon also. It meant major works to our old place in Lavenham, fortunately back in the days when there was less pressure from Conservation Officers etc., We renewed more than one floor with random width boards up to 2 inches thick in places re using where we could, It did mean damage to the exposed areas below and re plastering with a lime/sand mix which I forget the details of now after all these years, If you come across these boards allow much budget for repair/replacement.They really are a pest to work with.

 

[Penners]

Paul

I had lunch in The Angel in Lavenham (about 6 miles away from here) the other day. The limewash on the Guildhall was renewed last year, and it's look absolutely glorious.

Just thought I'd make you homesick!

David

 

[Paul Hopper]

Penners

Do'nt do that.. It makes me very sad cos I loved Suffolk and Norfolk!
(sob)
We go back when we can but its not often enough..
must go the boss is shouting at me ..

Paul