floorboards - screws or nails?

[Ian Bond]

Hi

Greetings to everyone who's made it over onto the new format forum so far.

I'm (trying) to repair my attic floor (softwood, tongue and groove boards) and am wondering whether to screw the boards down or use nails (cut brads)?

Using screws would avoid heavy hammering, and should be kinder on the ceilings below (and the neighbours' nerves).

What worries me is future maintenance. With nails, once you've cut the tongues and got access to a board end you can lever the board up, with care, and re-use it.

If I use screws is there a danger that they'll refuse to budge when some poor person in the future tries to get access under the floor? It would be a pity if the boards had to be butchered to get them up.

If I do use screws, what are the best ones for the job? Would stainless steel be better than zinc, or should I use brass screws?

Many thanks

Ian

p.s.

Whoever lifted the floor previously appears to have gone crazy with a circular saw - taking the edges off both adjacent boards to cut the tongues! I used a pad saw.

 

[Penners]

Hi Ian

I would definitely screw the boards down, for the reason you have suggested. Heavy hammering is never kind to the structure of the house, and can sometimes have unexpected results (fallen plaster, etc).

What are the joists made of? If they're oak, then I would certainly use stainless steel screws to avoid corrosion caused by the tannic acid in the oak. If they're softwood, then a good quality zinc-plated screw should withstand corrosion.

Provided you use screws that won't corrode, you should find that lifting a board in the future is actually less destructive with screws than with nails.

By the way, I'm sure you know that it's always a good plan to let your new boards stand in the house for a good period before you lay them. This acclimatises them to the ambient moisture content of the air in the house, and should minimise* shrinkage or expansion of the boards once the floor has been laid. Acclimatisation of a couple of weeks is a good plan - more if you have the time. If you stack the boards, be sure to separate them with slips of wood to allow the air to circulate around every board.

* note that I said "minimise" - not "eliminate"!

Good luck with the job.

 

[Ian Bond]

Hi David

The joists are softwood, so I'll go with the zinc plated screws. The hammer is going back in the toolbox.

Good point about the ceiling plaster. The underside of the tie beam has also been plastered, and some of this fell out a while back. I've used screws and washers to re-fix other areas, so I don't want to undo all my good work!

I'll take your advice with the new boards. I've got them stacked up, separated with off-cuts to allow the air to circulate.

Many thanks for the useful tips, much appreciated.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Moo]

David - would you recommend Ian to grease each screw before driving it home? I seem to remember that old-timers used this trick to make it easier to unscrew at some future time.

 

[Ian Bond]

That sounds like a great idea Moo.

I rub a candle over my saw blades to stop them sticking, so I'll try that with the screws - hopefully it will make them easier to drive in.

Ta very much,

Ian

 

[Penners]

Yes, Moo. Greasing is a good plan if you're driving screws into very hard wood, although it can sometimes tend to leave a greasy mark around the screw hole. I usually use soap.

However, as these are softwood joists, I don't think driving in the screws will be a problem, provided Ian uses good quality ones. Some of the screws sold in the major DIY sheds can be rubbish. They snap terribly easily. I'm a Scr*wfix man myself!

 

[biffvernon]

A read through the first chapter of the Screwfix catalogue is enlightening, or perhaps confusing. You can have Double countersunk, self countersinking, rifled shank, case, hardened, through hardened, double hardened core, zinc plated to 5 microns, zinc plated yellow passivate, A2 stainless steel, wax coated, lubricated, spiral point, needle point, twin thread start, 4 point tip, razor sharp tip, ground serrations, tapered shank, tri-lock shank, reinforced collar, ribs and tucks, and much more.
I think I'll stick to "Traditional Brass CSK Slotted". At least they have a slot that my screwdrivers fit.

 

[lordmulberry]

My ex father-in-law who was a carpenter of the old school used to use Vaseline on the screws but I guess any greasing would assist future lifting of the boards.

 

[Penners]

I think I'll stick to "Traditional Brass CSK Slotted". At least they have a slot that my screwdrivers fit

Sorry, Biff, I can't go along with that. I reckon if pozi screws had been invented first, then the idea of driving a screw in with a slot would be regarded as plumb crazy. The screwdriver slips, the slots get worn, they won't hold straight on a magnetic screwdriver... they're a nightmare!

Ask Father Christmas to bring you a nice set of pozi screwdrivers.

 

[biffvernon]

But when the slot's worn you get the hacksaw out and cut it deeper. What do you do with a worn out pozidrive hole? My magnetic screwdriver doesn't seem attracted to brass screws. If a magnet can pick it up it can go rusty. What is yellow passivate?

 

[Penners]

As I understand it, passivation is a general term to mean that the surface of a metal item is coated with a protective layer to prevent it from corroding. Ironically, a number of the passivation coatings are actually oxides themselves.

You can passivate with a number of substances - zinc for example. I believe that yellow passivation uses copper, but don't quote me on that.

 

[phil]

Ian
Bit late onto this thread, but endorse other`s comments on using
screws as least likely to cause peripheral damage. I use candle
wax - it does not stain surrounding wood and does not `migrate`
into the area surrounding the screw.
regards
Phil

 

[Ian Bond]

Thanks for the candle wax idea, Phil. I've tried that out today and it is working well.

I'm now patiently waiting for the new boards to acclimatize before I use 'em - so it's on to yet another unfinished job. Hopefully a job that's easier on me old knees.

Thank you to everyone who replied with those useful tips.

Cheers

Ian

 

[middi]

Lots of good suggestions already.

I personally would simply use " SPAX " self tightening, self courersinking gold screws , stand on the board and drill drive them in.

 

[biffvernon]

I can't afford gold screws

 

[middi]

I see, Biff.

I should have been more precise.
It should have been " turbogold" single thread woodscrew, by screwfix.

Spax do a similar version and they are " gold" coloured.

( only for the benefit of people that are unaware)

 

[middi]

Sorry, biff.

I cannot afford them either, so I use the " gold " coloured ones by spax or the " turbogold" single thread screws from screwfix.

 

[middi]

I am pleased I am now "legally" allowed to post on the site , so, excuse any c**k up untill I figure out how it all works.

 

[Ian Bond]

Hi Middi

That would certainly speed the job up for me. At the moment I'm using one drill for the pilot hole, swapping to another for the countersink and then using an old-fashioned hand-powered screw driver to fit the slotted screw. It's a good job I'm only patching the floor, I've only got another 200 screws to fit!

I like Biff's idea of using brass scews for the floor for their colour and rust-proof qualities. The only problem I've has with brass screws is their relative softness. It's easy to wreck the slot or sometimes snap the head off.

Gold coloured screws could look good too - I take it that these are steel screws that have been coated to prevent rusting?

Ian

 

[CHRIS]

I also use these SPAX screws as they are great at getting into old timbers, I am no means a proper carpenter but what are the pros opinion on these screws?

Are there any cheaper or do you pay for what you get with these things, they just seem to go in so much easier than normal ones and great when drilling above your head.