Failed paint on Victorian barge boards - advice on best product please!

[malcolm]

Linseed will take weeks to dry in these temperatures. You are probably better off with one of the other paints mentioned.

 

[Feltwell]

Don't forget that fixing the boards in place will, to a degree, upset any finish - having to put screws through etc and fill over afterwards- and generally you fix in stages, as each bit you fix and it's position decides the precise size & placement of the next bit. So not impossible to do what you want do by any means, but more awkward in many ways than fix in place and then decorate. I've done the pre-decorate thing, but with patching over fixings and then a final full coat in-situ.

Not used Brouns, I & lots of others used to use Holkhams, who have stopped - but all they were doing was buying in and rebranding the Swedish Allback paint, which is still available.

 

[mardinor]

Sounds like a good plan. Agree that if you’re replacing with good quality new wood then that’s the perfect starting point to use linseed oil paint.

Conscious of sounding like a salesman for Demidekk, nevertheless thought I’d chuck in that their new version (infinity) says it only needs to be protected from rain for 1 hour. Worth knowing if you don’t find a workaround for the drying time for linseed.

 

[a twig]

Cheap UV lamp from your preferred online tat purveyor would solve the problem

 

[Simon]

Oh hell! I am as confused as ever . I think linseed oil is best but because of the time of year, and advice above that it'll take weeks to dry (that I don't have) I might go for the new DemiDekk. I understand I have to use their own primer 'visir' and what 24 hours for primert to dry?

Just been online. Avace website. Demidekk seems to come in various colours and sizes. I guess I'll not need more than 3 litres for just one gable and just the barge boards. As for colours there are two versions of black RAL9005 and NCS 9000N? Can't tell which is blacker. And as for Visir primer, 0.9L probably a bit small, but then primer goes a long way. Probaly 2.7 L? Comes in clear or white. Guess I'll go for clear, if paint on top is black. .... (but I can call the suppliers about quantities and which primer on Monday morning)

So thanks to all for their help.

 

[Me!]

Demidekk paint is water based, but the Visir primer is spirit based. One very thin coat of primer is all you need, except on exposed end-grain which I give a good dose as is soaks in well. 24 hours should be OK for drying even in this temperature as long as you don't put it on too thick. The primer does go a very long way.
Yes, you should use the clear primer under black top coat.
You can have Demidekk mixed to any colour you like, but I'm fairly sure that RAL9005 is as black as black gets.

 

[88v8]

Thanks for the two quick new resposes (Me! and Feltwell). I'm sure what you write is correct: best to dry linseed oil in the ultra violet light, in warm dry weather. Unfortunately I have to do it right now, in the depths of winter when it's very cold and you cannot rule out the occasional shower (even when the weather forecast says otherwise)

Linseed now?
Nooooo

Linseed black on south facing, yes, it will be OK where all other paints will curl up and die.

But it must be applied in warm/hot weather, the timber should be hot and dry, preferably midday when the sun is shining, in fact exactly the conditions that will kill all other paints.

Not now.
Sorry.

I've used Barn Black on south facing, but it was sawn wood.

 

[Simon]

Thanks for the latest replies. The deed is done. I have listened and purchased the DemiDekk with their proprietory (clear) primer, which I shall apply (thinly) as advised. I will post a photo of the results, once the scaffolding has gone and the place doesn't look quite so awful. I will gladly update this site in due course of the paint's resilience after a few years' coastal attrition.

 

[Simon]

UPDATE: the boards have been primed and painted with 3 coats. It's very different to the previous paint. This starts off looking almost like a wood stain. But after three coats it builds up to a nice solid black coat. It's a very flat paint, with a slight sheen. I'm considering an additional coat on the outside surfaces once the boards have been fitted. Data sheet says 'three mininimum'...

 

[Simon]

I wonder if anybody will see this, as the thread is getting old and looked finished! Having painted my new bargeboards with DemiDekk, my carpenters have mounted them to the gable-end. Before I could say not to, they have filled screw holes and joints at the middle of with two-part wood filler, rather than the repaircare version recommended. I am hoping this will not matter too much as, by the time the spots of filler have been sanded flat, they will be tiny - just the size of a screw head.

I can't find anything on the DemiDekk data sheeet about how to paint over wood filler. My thought was to sand sand it smooth. Then re-prime where I'd sanded using the VISIR, then apply three coats just as I did originally with the fresh wood (even though each coat will just be one dab of the brush). Does that sound sensible? (you may feel I'm over-thinking this, but in view of how this thread started, I'm anxious nothing goes wrong thi time)

Thanks, Simon

 

[mardinor]

I wouldn't worry. Worse that happens is the filler cracks and falls out after a few seasons, in which case you can replace with the more flexible repaircare. That's less likely on screw holes, perhaps more so on the joints.
To paint over, no need for the VISIR primer - that's for bare wood (FYI...when it comes time to repaint in future, visir only needed in spots if you rub through to bare wood, if you use it on painted surfaces or filler it stays tacky as it can't soak in). So just sand the filler with 120 grit and paint straight on. I'd dab a couple of coats then for the last coat brush over to blend in. Well done on applying three coats on the boards - proper coating thickness is key, especially from bare.

 

[Simon]

PS: I couldn't wait, so I've just treated the filler like fresh wood, sanded, primed, and painted two coats.

 

[LadyArowana]

I wonder if anybody will see this, as the thread is getting old

Yes, as with anything online someone is always watching

 

[Stevers]

Have also just stumbled across this thread. I've been using the two part car filler style wood hardeners since we moved here in 1997, and have also concluded that they're not fit for purpose outdoors. The example I have is my fancy barge boards on the south west facing elevation. They date from c1879 and were painted last November, when I also reslated the Verge. The house is three storeys at the back, so it's high up and can only be accessed via scaffolding, so any paint really needs to last. Back in 2001 I had stripped the unsound paint and soaked the bargeboard in half a gallon of oil based preservative - so much in fact, that it took a week to dry. I then used 'Ronseal' style wood hardener, filled the many defects with 'Ronseal' style polyester wood filler. It was finished with two coats of International Ranch Paint (self priming), followed by flatting down and another two coats.

I have absolutely no complaints about the Ranch Paint, after all it's been up there twenty one years, and wish it was still available! Point of failure was the polyester wood filler which had either fallen out or was loose - the boards had started looking tatty about six years before. The unsound paint was removed in half a day using a Norton paint stripping wheel in an angle grinder - a first for me, and a revelation! Any sound paint was left as before, well cleaned and scuffed for adhesion. I didn't see any point in treating with preservative this time. Both of the wide lower boards had shakes that left the 'smiles' a little wobbly, so I added stainless steel repair plates on the back to stiffen them up.


To make good this time I went down the crazy expensive epoxy hardener and epoxy filler route, in my case from County Construction Chemicals (3C), but, I have more than enough left over to sort out my sash windows and folding garage doors this summer. The hardener is coloured blue that I wasn't so keen on, but it worked really well. Their epoxy filler is really an overnight set, so plenty of working time, and it was a joy to use. Once all the repairs were done, I applied three coats of Solvent Satin Zinsser Allcoat - the closest equivalent that I've found to Ranch Paint. It's quick drying for a solvent paint, and I managed two coats in one day. To save money I bought brilliant white and tinted it cream using yellow ochre dye. Everything outside is cream apart from doors (blue) and ironwork (black). Each year I only paint what needs painting as I have found that the paintwork on some elevations and elements lasts better than others.

I was so impressed with the evident capabilities of the epoxy filler that I applied the hardener to the exposed rafter and skimmed it with the filler to true it up where it had cupped and cracked. Such an approach wouldn't last five minutes with polyester wood fillers! I have no connection to 3C other than as a very satisfied customer, and hope my experience is useful to others.

 

[Zebra]

Hmm, thanks for the tip re the Norton paint stripping wheel. I am losing the gumption to continue stripping my windows, though I will persist. A revelatory tool tip might be just what I need. Is it okay on fiddly bits, or just flat surfaces?
Barge boards look fab!

 

[LadyArowana]

A revelatory tool tip might be just what I need.

And some KitKats with strong tea or coffee, this time of year a creme egg or two once the job is done*

*or as done as it’s going to be, I’m learning that period properties are never ‘done’ done

 

[Stevers]

Hmm, thanks for the tip re the Norton paint stripping wheel. I am losing the gumption to continue stripping my windows, though I will persist. A revelatory tool tip might be just what I need. Is it okay on fiddly bits, or just flat surfaces?
Barge boards look fab!

Thank you, if barge boards can be cool, those are. Because of the shake one of those trefoil bits was a scarfed in 'repair' from new. I've replaced two including that one, and all the ones on the south west elevation now have a long brass screw up through them to hold them together. The same barge board design is on the other end of the house, but it's like new since it doesn't get strong sun or the prevailing weather. For the sanding disk I'd say flat surfaces, they're extremely effective, with care leaving a beautiful finish on the bare wood. Definitely not something to be used anywhere near glass!

 

[Feltwell]

I was so impressed with the evident capabilities of the epoxy filler that I applied the hardener to the exposed rafter and skimmed it with the filler to true it up where it had cupped and cracked. Such an approach wouldn't last five minutes with polyester wood fillers! I have no connection to 3C other than as a very satisfied customer, and hope my experience is useful to others.

Yep - epoxy is to my mind the only stuff to use, well worth the expense. I'm not sure there is much in it between brands, I like Timbabuild, that has a separate primer that goes on first to soak in and give a really good key - also good for sealing up end grain.

Old thread:-

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/threads/2-part-epoxy-wood-repair-systems.16977/

 

[Cubist]

*or as done as it’s going to be, I’m learning that period properties are never ‘done’ done

It's called PPEM (Period Property Entropy Malaise) - an incurable ailment that afflicts people who buy old homes with their eyes wide shut. The health warning message - seldom publicised by estate agents and conveyancing solicitors - includes an oblique reference to the San Francisco, Sydney Harbour and Forth bridges and something about paint.