External wall insulation

[Zebra]

Today I went to visit Tyland Barn in Kent, a 17th Century farmhouse that has had its cement render removed and replaced with lime, with woodfibre external wall insulation added at the same time. It's very much what I'm hoping to do with mine, so I was looking to see how they'd done the detailing around cills, eaves, etc.

http://www.conkerconservation.co.uk/projects/tyland-farmhouse-conversion-maidstone/

It looked very good, and so I'm hoping to use the same materials and do the same thing this summer. However, I'm ot sure if this is a DIY project or whether I should get someone in who knows what they're doing. Does anyone know of any contractors in the Herts area with experience of this kind of thing?

 

[Penners]

Does anyone know of any contractors in the Herts area with experience of this kind of thing?

It seems that the answer to your question is 'no' Zebra! But I'm responding to bump you up to the top of the list again - just in case.

 

[Zebra]

Thanks Penners. I had assumed the same, that the answer was no! However, I'm thinking I'm probably going to DIY it. If it was the normal Celotex style insulation I don't think one would hesitate to DIY, so how much harder can it be to do woodfibre? The suppliers will help up to a point, with drawings of the more standard junctions, and if I get stuck I'll go and ask the Green Building Forum, they'll have some tips!
Just need it to stop raining, and do the repairs to the frame first!

 

[Flyfisher]

Having seen first-hand what you've already achieved, Zebra, I can't imagine a bit of woodfibre - or whatever your choose - could get the better of you!

 

[Penners]

Just need it to stop raining

Aye, there's the rub. I should plan some interim activity while you wait for this miracle.

Reading War And Peace might fill the time.

 

[dans]

Thanks Penners. I had assumed the same, that the answer was no! However, I'm thinking I'm probably going to DIY it. If it was the normal Celotex style insulation I don't think one would hesitate to DIY, so how much harder can it be to do woodfibre? The suppliers will help up to a point, with drawings of the more standard junctions, and if I get stuck I'll go and ask the Green Building Forum, they'll have some tips!
Just need it to stop raining, and do the repairs to the frame first!

Please keep me updated as to your plans Zebra! I am a step behind you at the moment and am repairing from the inside. At some point in the next 6-8 weeks, we will be looking at stripping the cement render from certain aspects of the house, and I've been looking at different insulation options.

I can't step out the render on the front of the house, because they'll be too much a of a step between the first floor render and the ground floor brick, so will have to consider other insulation options for the front aspect. Much of the wattle and daub is missing or blown, so options to insulate between the studs on this wall is looking more likely...

 

[Zebra]

Having seen first-hand what you've already achieved, Zebra, I can't imagine a bit of woodfibre - or whatever your choose - could get the better of you!

Thanks Flyfisher! But you haven't seen all the things I've got wrong and had to do all over again! :lol:

I should plan some interim activity while you wait for this miracle.
Reading War And Peace might fill the time.

Sitting on my stripey backside for a while is actually quite appealing.

Dans, you can rest assured I'll be posting every miniature triumph and despair on here! Your building might not be the same as mine, but I've got different wall thicknesses on the upper (timber) and lower (brick) storeys too, and am going to use different thicknesses of wood fibre insulation to bring them more or less flush, with a movement joint in between. I've used sheeps wool between the studs, but then I never had wattle and daub.

 

[Flyfisher]

Having seen first-hand what you've already achieved, Zebra, I can't imagine a bit of woodfibre - or whatever your choose - could get the better of you!

Thanks Flyfisher! But you haven't seen all the things I've got wrong and had to do all over again! :lol:

Perhaps, but that sort of tenacity is why you won't be beaten. :wink:

 

[Zebra]

The thing with it is, that I've spent so much time figuring out exactly how to do this insulation stuff, how the junctions will work etc, that if I got a contractor in, I'd be making a great fuss if they did it in a way that I didn't think was so good. It's fine if you can get someone in because you don't know the first thing about it so you're happy to leave it to them, and you can let go and give up control, but if you're pretty sure what you want, and how you want it, you either end up breathing over their shoulder, which nobody likes, or not being satisfied. It may be foolish to attempt this, and I may be missing some very important knowledge (I've seen people's DIY wiring!) but I know I'll really take time and care over getting the detail as good as I can get it.

 

[Lime]

I know how you feel.
The plumbing in my kitchen rebuild was torn out on several occasions by me.
The plasterers' faces were like thunder when I cut their wet plaster out to do it.
However if you know more and care more about the job and can do it, do it.

 

[agbagb]

I'm the same when it comes to getting someone in to do anything. The only times I do are for Gassafe for comisioning boilers, Sparky for fuse boards/certing and roofers because the wife won't let me. Most of time we can research enough to know how a job should be done, actually doing it is justing learning and time, lots of time. Go for it!

 

[AMc]

I found virtually no one in the building trade who were capable of the level of detail that good insulation requires. The only people who did were the bosses who'd done their own renovation projects and had learnt the expensive lessons of poor fit and finish when they trusted other people to do the work
The architects and building surveyor I spoke with had frankly rudimentary knowledge of what to use, where and how much was needed and deferred all questions to my air source heat pump and underfloor heating company.

My experience with (non breathable) insulation was that even builders who were supposed to know that they were doing made mistakes that have significantly compromised the effectiveness of some very expensive work.
A gap of 1-3mm can make a vast difference to the efficiency. If you leave voids that allow convection currents this can also result in significant heat loss.
I would ONLY do my insulation myself with a paid assistant in future as you are the one who sits in the house and feels the draughts where they failed to make the junctions air tight and the wind whistles your heat and money away

This is one area where I think it pays in all senses to become your own expert and diy the installation.

 

[billybuntus]

Does anyone have any links to the external insulation systems and how they work?

Thanks,

 

[Zebra]

As far as the woodfibre stuff goes, search for Steico, Gutex, Diffutherm.

 

[dans]

Link direct to the PDF and more detail: http://www.conkerconservation.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/RICS-Tyland.pdf

 

[Zebra]

Well, it's done. I have a house that looks like a cardboard box. Used Steico woodfibre insulation. All but the front elevation is done, because the new flat roof has to be built on the front first.
It's in two layers, one of 40mm and one of 60mm, each screwed through to the frame. Almost every single board has had to be cut and shaped to suit the contours of the frame, gables, beam ends and the bit between the chimney and the house, so it's been a very tricky job, with the worst parts done from a ladder too. I've done it in between work and other stuff over the last month, but I reckon if I'd been full time there was easily two weeks work there for one, but that's with being extremely fussy. Extremely glad I did it myself, because I'm positive that no contractor would have spent that much time and effort getting all the joints to fit nicely. Still, now it's done, the house has a new coat (I think it likes it better than the last one) and to the high standards that zebras always expect when insulating their houses...
Now to get the roofer to do the flashing, then get the drip beads on, get the windows in and glazed, get it rendered, then get the roofer to do the tiling, get the front extension built, roofed, windows, doors, and I'm watertight!! Really hoping to get to that point by winter. Just need my darned brother to come back and finish the front extension (he was supposed to do it in April..... :x)

 

[dans]

Well done Zebra! Looks a top quality job!!

 

[agbagb]

That certainly is looking good, you're an inspiration. It just goes to show what can be done without getting a contractor in.

Well done.

 

[dans]

That certainly is looking good, you're an inspiration. It just goes to show what can be done without getting a contractor in.

Well done.

If I didn't get a contractor in, it wouldn't look like that!

 

[Zebra]

Why thank you. As I said, I was fussy and took my time.