External paint work

[vicky whitworth]

At long, long last we are going to have the outside finished this year, which is re-pointing some walls, harling others, and then lime washing the lot. We plan to lime wash in white as that seems to be the way it has been for a long time, and it will also be easier for maintenance as no colour matching presumably if we need to touch up some of it at a later date. But what colour to do the woodwork? I know it's personal preference but I'd welcome some views. Currently one end is black and white window frames which I quite like as it makes that end look at bit Victorian somehow. The other end has a combination of unpainted frames (never got round to painting them) and F&B Card Room Green. We have two large porches which are both Card Room Green. I like the green but it's a bit F&B, if you know what I mean. I had some thoughts about something red (against the while lime wash) but would that be a bit scary. What about F&B Radiccio? Any thoughts appreciated. It's a small but long rubble stone cottage - very vernacular.

 

[MatthewC]

F&B? Not what I'd recommend for exterior use.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Vicky - it depends how much preparation you have to do anyway, but I'd certainly consider stripping the existing ones to match the unpainted ones, oiling them and then painting them all with a nice linseed oil paint.

You will need a reasonable period of fine weather to do it ll, but then ongoing maintenance should be much lower.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Need pics very badly for this one! What's the date of the cottage Vicky? I think you should go for uniformity and not have too many different colours going on.
Red strikes me as being very Victorian town house ( for a front door) so I'd avoid it, even though Radiccio is nice.
If you're certain on white for the limewash you may feel that painting the windows white doesn't look very period, or offer enough contrast, that's certainly how I feel about how my house looks currently.
I think the black, framing the white, in windows looks extremely smart and I'd be tempted to do that all over. A very dark green, like a Carriage Green, is also authentic for Georgian and Victorian schemes, but it's a powerful, slightly gloomy look. I like it, but it's not for everyone!
A nice and popular contrast in rural properties is off white walls with soft sagey green woodwork. Start looking around you and seeing if you like this. I think it's very jolly especially if the roof is a warm colour.

I thought I'd go for this here but I'm no longer sure, the roof is very dark grey which I think means smart black and white will look better.

I've used FnB exterior eggshell without any difficulties. You must get the exterior one if you use it though, a few weeks ago I used the interior FnB eggshell on a chicken shelter and it's failed. The exterior one still looks perfect after 2 years of hard weather.

The linseed oil paint is a good idea, but as Robin says it depends how much rubbing down you can do as there's no point putting it on top of non breathing paint.

 

[worms]

I've dones a trial section with Holkham's graphite grey and feel it works better against the white limewash, than black does - gives the contrast without it being quite so stark.

 

[Pford75]

If you are not rubbing down and using linseed, then I would consider whether F&B is the best choice (I speak as a fan of their paints and distempers inside the house). We are lime washing etc this year but have decided to go for a Dulux Weathershield (made to match a F&B colour). This is based on our painters recommendation (and he does a lot of NT work and is a regular user of traditional paints/finishes)

 

[MatthewC]

I've used FnB exterior eggshell without any difficulties. You must get the exterior one if you use it though, a few weeks ago I used the interior FnB eggshell on a chicken shelter and it's failed. The exterior one still looks perfect after 2 years of hard weather.

The issue I had with F&B was with their exterior eggshell. I used a lot of expensive tins (>£35 /2.5lt) over a period of four years on a number of doors and windows which nearly all went chalky after a year or two; as I thought that it was my preparation which was at fault, I continued to use it. Their technical helpdesk could only guess that my two topcoats were too thin, and so I took even more care but, whatever I did, it still went wrong on nearly all of them. I reckon that it just couldn't stand the exposed position on dormers in the roof (but even north facing ones went bad).

 

[JoceAndChris]

Very frustrating for you! Which year? And was it the old oil finish, or the water based one ( now discontinued I think)?

 

[biffvernon]

There is only a choice of thirty colours (or infinite if you start mixing pots). Here's a picture of them: http://www.holkhamlinseedpaints.co.uk/products/linseed-oil-paint.html

I wouldn't consider anything else, other than perhaps something from the German firm Beeck.

If you chose a dark colour, such as Holkham Green (aka invisible green) a curious optical effect kick in. The woodwork, especially glazing bars, looks slimmer and the glazed areas larger. Occasionally one sees two neighbouring buildings with exactly the same windows, one white and one a very dark colour. Folk need a measure to convince themselves that the glazing bars are the same width.

White was common in the 18th century but with the introduction of cheap chemical dye-stuffs in the early decades of the 19th rich colours became popular and dominated external joinery untill after World War II when TiO2 replaced lead as the white pigment.

But remember that the best thing is not to paint them at all. Of course you need windows made of something durable, oak or chestnut. Titanium mining is wrecking havoc around the world. The Madagascar rainforest is particularly vulnerable. Rather than buying paint, sign this petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/455/274/329/

Despite worldwide public outcry, the Cambodian government approved the construction of a new titanium mine in the Cardamom Mountains -- one of the last intact rainforests in Southeast Asia.

The Cardamom Mountains are home to more than half of Cambodia birds species and more than 74 endangered and vulnerable species. The mine itself would cut directly through an important elephant corridor. Plus, the mine threatens the local ecotourism economy -- a model for sustainable development.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

There is only a choice of thirty colours (or infinite if you start mixing pots). Here's a picture of them: http://www.holkhamlinseedpaints.co.uk/products/linseed-oil-paint.html

I wouldn't consider anything else, other than perhaps something from the German firm Beeck.

It's not often that biff and I are in complete agreement ( :wink: ) , but on two things we are: his lovely oak windows and Holkham paints.

I wish I could afford to combine both all over my house.

 

[biffvernon]

It's not often that biff and I are in complete agreement

Here's the killer evidence of global warming: http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rxr9V2We20&feature=related

 

[FamilyWiggs]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

A polar bear with a Brazilian!

 

[Moo]

If you chose a dark colour, such as Holkham Green (aka invisible green) a curious optical effect kick in. The woodwork, especially glazing bars, looks slimmer and the glazed areas larger. Occasionally one sees two neighbouring buildings with exactly the same windows, one white and one a very dark colour. Folk need a measure to convince themselves that the glazing bars are the same width.

Biff's quite right (as usual) about the effect of Invisible Green. We use it on all our exterior woodwork, against quite pale rendered walls, and really does look good.


(though I have to admit that ours comes from D*l*x)

 

[MatthewC]

Very frustrating for you! Which year? And was it the old oil finish, or the water based one ( now discontinued I think)?

It was the oil finish (it was on a Grade 2 church) between 2005 and 2009. I did seven external doors on the ground floor, five dormer doors on the roof and six clerestory windows on the roof. It was because they were all spread around (you don't go on the roof often) that I didn't immediately notice the poor finish developing. I changed manufacturers when I wanted to finish the job in 2010 and found that they now had stopped that type of paint and replaced it with "Eco-emulsion" at £48 (yes forty eight pounds) for 2.5 litres. Too expensive, like buying a Rolls-Royce and getting a scruffy Rover delivered.

Matthew
http://houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.com/

 

[Carol]

Would echo thoughts about the new F&B formulation exterior eggshell. My new external gates, painted April 2010 look as though they will need redoing before long. I know it was a particularly bad winter but they have lost the 'eggshell' finish and have weathered badly although there are no flaky patches. Painting was professionally done as well. Wished I'd held out for linseed, but painter initially v. sceptical, although he looked at the websites I suggested. After he'd done my doors he said he "would be happy to try that Holkham stuff" !

 

[biffvernon]

£48 (yes forty eight pounds) for 2.5 litres.

That's cheaper than Holkham paints, which are about £35 per litre, but as the Dutch saying goes, the most expensive paint is cheap paint.

Remember the VOC content. The V stands for volatile, which means it evaporates into the air and you lose it even though you have paid good money for it. Bonkers or what?
With linseed oil paint it all stays where you put it and actually gets heavier, capturing oxygen from the air (no need to pay for that part). You paint it on very thinly, brushing it out as far as you can so the paint layer ends up a good deal thinner than with alkyd resin paints. Look at the small print; the coverage rate for linseed paint is almost double so be careful when comparing prices of tins. And if it lasts twice as long it's not just worth twice as much - there's the labour cost to be added.

Bad things about linseed paint:
It takes a little longer to dry so you can't do a second coat before tea time.
You won't need to go back and buy more soon (this is only a bad thing if you are a shop-keeper or paint manufacturer).
It's kind to the skin so lady decorators prefer it (this is only a bad thing if you are bloke with a warped view of the role of women).

 

[Lime]

I used Holkham paints nearly three years ago on all the exterior woodwork.
I took great care to prepare the wood before any paint was used.
I have mixed feelings about it.
The vertical sections of paintwork still look very good, the colour remaining strong and clean.
However, from the start, the upward-facing horizontal areas where dust and dirt collect have looked very poor indeed.
The soot and other dirt in the air sticks to the paint and will not come off.
the dirt beds itself deep into the paint.
The frontdoor looks so bad, quite awful in fact, I will have to repaint it this summer and it will not be with Holkham paint.
I will use the linseed paint as a good undercoat but I will never readily use it as a top coat again particularly where fingermarks and close inspection occurs.

I said I have mixed feelings about it.
Regardless of what I have just written, the linseed paint does appear to adhere well to wood (pine in my case) and it doesn't form a plastic skin that holds water under it.
On the otherhand it shows all the grain that grins through the very thin paint layer.
The drying time of Holkham paints is a pain.
I put on four very thin coats in total.
That took all summer to do because of the prolonged drying time, taking over 2-3 weeks between coats in a dull summer.

 

[biffvernon]

Strange - I usually find just a day or two between coats is ample :?

 

[vicky whitworth]

Thank you for the advice on paint. I have used F&B external a few years ago and it's all peeling off. I assumed it was my rubbish painting skills but perhaps not. I'm not sure I can go down the linseed paint route. But if F&B is out are there any other options with a good range of colours?

 

[biffvernon]

I'm not sure I can go down the linseed paint route.

Why not? Forget about branding, the choice is between a linseed oil paint and an alkyd resin paint. The chemistry determines the mechanical properties.