External Lime Render

[bcsalt]

Hi all,

We moved into a 'newly renovated house' end of last summer. Over the winter, the paint on the front of the property started to peel off in places so when I gave it a prod, large amounts of plaster also came off.
The original part of the house was built in 1883 and extended in the early 1900s. Presumably therefore rendered in lime render.
It looks like the people who renovated the property patched it up with modern cement and then painted over with waterproof paint which has cracked over the winter allowing water in. The cement under the paint has pretty much washed away and is just sand over the original plaster.
The walls are therefore rather damp where the paint has cracked, and lots of bits of the original render have blown.

From what I've been able to gather, the best thing to do to fix it properly is to have the old stuff removed and replaced with lime render and more appropriate paint whilst maintaining all the features.

I've had one quote from a specialist, and am having trouble getting any others to come and give us an estimate.
I'm therefore looking for advice as to what people think is a reasonable amount to have this work done?

 

[88v8]

Hello and welcome.
Specialists tend to be in short supply, busy and expensive.
Edit your Profile to show your location.

Newly renovated. Renovated spelt b o d g e d? There's a lot of it about. Hopefully any other work they did is impeccable.

Yes, as you say, should all come off and be redone in two-coat lime.
Unless.... unless all the walls have an effective dpc, which in 1883 is moot, in which case it could be cement rendered.
But cement is a one-way ticket - put it on and find you have problems, there's no easy way back.

Once it's been lime rendered, paint it with Keim Granital. Reassuringly expensive... will last for many many years and is breathable like limewash, but unlike limewash it will last for many many years.
https://www.keim.com/en-gb/mineral-products/keim-exterior-paints/granital/
Scrupulously follow the application procedure.

Ivor

 

[ElectronicFur]

I'd be interested to know what price you have been quoted to take the cement render off and replace with a lime render.

We are about to buy a house from the 1830s, which has apparently also been re-rendered with cement, and painted with Dulux weathershield. We are unsure whether it is a problem as this was done 20 odd years ago before the property was listed, and there don't seem to be problems similar to those you have experienced. But it would be good to know what kind of costs we're looking at if we do experience issues because of the cement.

 

[bcsalt]

Thanks

We've told the builders to go ahead - quote was 8K all in to strip off all the existing render, re-render with lime & repaint. They reckon 4 weeks total allowing drying time etc.

Will look into the paint you recommend, thanks

I'll give the original renovators the benefit of the doubt, they;'ve done everything else pretty well (or we haven't discovered the gremlins yet), so i'm going to assume they didn't understand the nuance of an old buliding (as I didn't until I did a bit of research).

Ben

 

[ElectronicFur]

Thanks. Any idea roughly how many square metres that quote was for?

FYI when I was researching this, I also came across a durable lime paint called Graphenstone. No idea how it compares to the Keim one though that 88v8 mentioned.

https://www.lime.org.uk/news/graphenstone-gcs-paint-introductory-offer.html

 

[MikeG]

Thanks. Any idea roughly how many square metres that quote was for?

FYI when I was researching this, I also came across a durable lime paint called Graphenstone. No idea how it compares to the Keim one though that 88v8 mentioned.

https://www.lime.org.uk/news/graphenstone-gcs-paint-introductory-offer.html

I think this sort-of misses the point. Limewash is a slurry of lime...the same stuff that the render is done with. Adding little and often is like a continuous repair and maintenance of the lime render, which will otherwise crack here and there. Therefore, there is much to be said for NOT having a long lasting durable finish, and just using good old limewash every 2 or 3 years.

 

[MikeG]

We've told the builders to go ahead - quote was 8K all in to strip off all the existing render, re-render with lime & repaint..........

That looks a cracking price to me. That is a seriously involved job, with all those details, and without any large flat areas. Have you seen any of their work, or spoken to previous customers?

The danger for the chap seeking a per sq metre price is that every job is completely different, and comparisons are hard to make.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Thanks

We've told the builders to go ahead - quote was 8K all in to strip off all the existing render, re-render with lime & repaint. They reckon 4 weeks total allowing drying time etc.

Will look into the paint you recommend, thanks

I'll give the original renovators the benefit of the doubt, they;'ve done everything else pretty well (or we haven't discovered the gremlins yet), so i'm going to assume they didn't understand the nuance of an old buliding (as I didn't until I did a bit of research).

Ben

I don't think that is enough, it doesn't add up to me. 8k labour perhaps, that would be 2 guys at £200/day for 4 weeks, or perhaps 2 guys on a bit less and a labourer. With materials that doesn't sound possible unless I am really out of touch.

 

[Abi Cott]

They will be running two jobs at once and alternating between them I would guess.

 

[plasticpigeon]

The pictures have shown up now. Are you sure the quote is to hack it all off and not just to repair the parts that have blown? Also since this is a big job, there may be an opportunity to think about what would be best. I'm not an architect, but i shall stick my neck out and say that your very attractive property looks Jacobean revival in style. I can imagine it in a facade of natural materials, such as stone quoins, copings, lintels and bay, with stone infill, or stone with brick infill or even stone and roughcast infill. On the section where the paint has come off, the colour is a rather nice golden colour. Could this be stone rather than render? I can see on the bays there are horizontal lines. Are these lines in the render or are they the joints between stone blocks? I can't imagine that these ashlar lines were cut in recently. If you have natural stonework on the exterior then perhaps it might be btter to strip the paintg and any cement and repair rather than render. Do you know anything about the history of the property? Was it a lodge or a gatehouse once upon a time. Is there a local vernacular that might hint at what is underneath? If you have natural stonework on the exterior then perhaps it might be btter to strip the paintg and any cement and repair rather than render.

 

[MikeG]

........ Was it a lodge or a gatehouse once upon a time........

I assumed it was the latter. There is quite a similar gatehouse on the road between Bury St Edmunds and Ixworth in Suffolk, I think (if I've got my geography and my memory aligned).

 

[Kearn]

The pictures have shown up now.

Strange, all I can see are broken image links?! Shame as now I'm intrigued as to what the house looks like....

EDIT. And as if by the magic of saying that, they have appeared!

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks. Any idea roughly how many square metres that quote was for?

FYI when I was researching this, I also came across a durable lime paint called Graphenstone. No idea how it compares to the Keim one though that 88v8 mentioned.

https://www.lime.org.uk/news/graphenstone-gcs-paint-introductory-offer.html

I think this sort-of misses the point. Limewash is a slurry of lime...the same stuff that the render is done with. Adding little and often is like a continuous repair and maintenance of the lime render, which will otherwise crack here and there. Therefore, there is much to be said for NOT having a long lasting durable finish, and just using good old limewash every 2 or 3 years.

But there's another point to sort-of miss, and that's the cost of limewashing every two or three years. I entirely agree that regular limewashing is highly beneficial and in the 'good old days' when labour was cheap and working off a ladder had not yet been deemed to be the work of the devil, it was good for the building and easy on the pocket. It's still good for the building, of course, but not so easy on the pocket if you have to pay for scaffolding every 2/3 years.

Hence the interest in silicate paints such as Keim et al. They may be far more expensive than cheap-as-chips lime-wash but over 20/25 years might be a much cheaper option.

I've never heard of Graphenstone but if it really is basically limewash that lasts a lot longer then what's not to like? I tend to be naturally cautious about new formulations and graphene is one of those recent 'wonder inventions' now looking for any and all practical commercial applications, but Ty Mawr has a good reputation for period building materials and if they are prepared to put it on the line for this Graphenstone formulation then it's probably worth consideration.

Personally, having had our house stripped of its cement render and properly lime-rendered/lime-washed a few years ago, I'm very soon going to have to decide on what to do. I've already done a little 'patching up' limewashing (easy to do with plain white rather than coloured limewash that's almost impossible to colour match after a few years!) but am getting to the stage where I'll be looking for help with a complete re-limewash - so I'm on the lookout for a 'little ol' boy' happy to work off a ladder

 

[GPHouse]

I;ve never used it but there is another product that has been in use for a long time which provides a durable finish and comes highly recommended by a lot of people - I assume this product does something similar.

Keim is a silicate paint which binds with the lime, its german and has been around for a long time, by all accounts the original forulation is still on some older buildings (tens and tens of years). It remains breathable and basically seems to be pretty nails... Anyone come across this as this is one of the next big projects on my list.... and I;d love someone with first hand experience to chip in!!?

G

 

[GPHouse]

https://www.keim.com/en-gb/keim-library/comparison-of-keim-limewash/

 

[steveb]

We used earthborn silicate which I believe is a lower cost alternative, very pleased with the results. Mike Wye also I believe sell Secil silicate again lower cost.

Quite how similar they are in formulation to Keim, I don't know.

 

[bcsalt]

Thanks All,

Don't know why the pictures are intermittent...

Yes the quote is to take it all off and replace with lime render maintaining all the details. They said 4 weeks due to drying time so I presume they will disappear for periods to do other work in the interim... Glad to hear it sounds like a good quote!
I have seen pictures of their previous work which includes similar, they only do lime rendering work so hopefully all will be well...

It was indeed the lodge to a manor house once upon a time!

 

[GPHouse]

Thanks Steve - I'll have a look at the alternates - I'be got Earthborn paint elsewhere.... not sure if it'll be cheaper if their paint prices are anything to go by!

 

[steveb]

>be got Earthborn paint elsewhere.... not sure if it'll be cheaper if their paint prices are anything to go by!

You clearly have not yet seen the price of Keim! However, if you look at the price of scaffolding and the price to apply it, expensive paint doesn't really count in the overall expense unless you are applying it yourself..

I took a 20 year view on it, if it doesn't need re-doing in 20 years it will have paid for itself twenty times over due to saved labour and scaffolding. It should last longer..

 

[GPHouse]

LOL. some homework to do obviously!

I'll be doing the gruntwork unfortunately but I think this a next summer job.