External Doors

[Cocoa]

Hello all,

Would any of you be able to reccomend any companies which manufacture and install external doors? The door I have currently looks gorgeous (I think), even if it is a 70's replica Georgian affair. But it fits badly despite my draught-proofing, is quite insecure, and is really really thin where the panels are! The local joiners who are manufacturing my sash windows quoted me £3,000, so i had Everest round who quoted me £3,800! That is with a much thickr door, low e-glass & argon filling for the double glazed panel, the more secure locks, and just generally significantly better fit around the frame. But it's so much more expensive than I was expecting! I am still debating about whether to install central heating (there is none currently) , as I am unwilling to do so much damage to the fabric of the building, and if that it my decision, well I had better get the place as insulated as possible! Suggestions gratefully received..

 

[masochists-r-us]

Bespoke external doors are expensive. Although £3k does seem quite steep,if it's a very large door made of hardwood such as oak, it may be a fair price.You need to post a photo of the house with said doorway to get a more accurate judgement. With regard to Everest, I can't imagine why you would even consider what I assume is a UPVC door on a period house, even if it is a superior fit. In any event, a well made and fitted quality timber door should eliminate most draughts and will look significantly better.

 

[Penners]

I would just pause and think twice about replacing your existing door. It may be a bit ill-fitting, but wouldn't it be a great deal less expensive to do something to improve its fit, rather than replace it? Even if you have to have a joiner modify the doorframe, this would surely be much cheaper than a costly new door.

As for its thin panels, there are two ways of looking at this problem:-

1. The panels may look thin to you, but would a passing ne'er-do-well really see this from the street? Frankly, by the time that someone has actually made the decision to break through your door (a highly unlikely scenario), you've got a problem regardless of its thickness!

2. If this aspect still worries you, you could get the abovementioned joiner to do some internal modifications to the door, to strengthen it. I'm certain this would still save you a substantial amount of money against the cost of a new door.

 

[Flyfisher]

I would also think about improving the door and frame already in place. £3000 would pay for a lot of expert joinery time!

I say that sincerely because our Georgian front door and frame is also in need of some serious TLC but I'm not contemplating a replacement.

However, I did recently have a brand new and rather large oak stable door (2100 x1100 x 55mm) including two DG glass panels and matching frame made (for a brand new doorway) and it was just under £2000, so £3800 sounds very expensive to me.

I would seek out a local joinery company rather than a specialist door/window manufacturer - a tip someone gave me many years ago when they were looking for a rather large conservatory/garden room. They told me that all the well-known conservatoy companies provided astronomical quotes compared to having their local builder build the entire thing using bespoke frame units built by a local joinery company.

 

[Cocoa]

Hello everyone, thank you so much for the replies. I have been trying to post a photo, but like many before me, I have so far been unsuccessful!

With regard to Everest, I can't imagine why you would even consider what I assume is a UPVC door on a period house.

I can assure you I would not! UPVC is horrible stuff even on a more modern building. I had first contacted the guys who are replacing my sash windows (local joiners), and as their £3k quote surprised me I contacted Everest and had a look at their hardwood options.

As for its thin panels, there are two ways of looking at this problem:-

1. The panels may look thin to you, but would a passing ne'er-do-well really see this from the street? Frankly, by the time that someone has actually made the decision to break through your door (a highly unlikely scenario), you've got a problem regardless of its thickness!

To be honest with you, I am a bit more concerned about the cold the thin panelling would create. It was freeing in here when I moved in in March, although I have toughened up slightly since then (no central heating and stone floors is not a recipe for wintery comfort, although it's been terrific in the 2 weeks of hot weather we just had). The keyhole alone lets in a proper gale, and the hardware does not allow for a key guard to be fitted!

I'll take your advice and see what a local joiner can do just in terms of fitting the door more snuggle. I suppose I can also look into having the small glass panel double glazed, and of course hang thick curtains in front during the worst of the cold season!

 

[Sonyaclegg]

I've got tissue paper stuck in my keyholes at present. It's economical and it works. I have some covers on order for a more permanent fix!

 

[Keithj]

Our local joiner did a job on ours, for not-a-lot. The options were many - up to a double-skin timber door with wool insulation between the skins. The old door was beyond recovery, but the new one is the same design. I had to paint it myself - he hates painting with a passion!

 

[LadyArowana]

The keyhole alone lets in a proper gale, and the hardware does not allow for a key guard to be fitted!

!

For my "Strange word of the Day" submission, I would like to offer "Escutcheon", which has several meanings ( heraldic, even medical ) but in a period property context refers to that bit of metal that goes around the keyhole.......... and no I didn't know that until I had to buy one :lol:

 

[Keithj]

I have a veritable armoury of escutcheons! One inside and one outside, and draughts are in for a hard time.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Yes this tailpiece is also described as an escutcheon shape.

 

[Penners]

I have a veritable armoury of escutcheons

I trust that none of them has a blot on it.

 

[agbagb]

After trying all sorts of proprietary draft proofing I came up with a solution using brush strip around the side of the door (or it could go on the frame). I've got the details here. It doesn't rely on the pressure from latch to keep the seal. It's a quick, cheap job and its been perfect for my old doors that change shape through the seasons.

Draft proofing and a heavy curtain would be the way to go for heat conservation. Double glazing such a small area of glass will only make a miniscule difference to the overall heat loss. Replacing the complete door (especially at £3000) will never re-coup the cost in energy saving in our lifetimes.

Do bear in mind drafts can also be called ventilation. So there can be knock on effects with condensation and damp that you should keep an eye out for.

Just a thought for the stone floors have you considered some rugs? As for insulating and installing central heating it'll be interesting to see how you get on with it. I've just about finished doing this in our cottage, it's not easy keeping it discreet.

 

[Cocoa]

Agbagb, is Idostuff your website? I found that when googling today (t'was a profitable day at work) and it caught my imagination! I am not convinced I am handy enough to do that myself, but I'll quiz the joiner about it.

I am actually thinking of doing without central heating, and (i) becoming hardy and (ii) insulating everything possible. (I know that there are a few other posters on this forum who manage without central heating!) I have bought some heavy inerlined curtains for all the doors, and most of the stone floors are covered in a mixture of carpet and lino, which I wil leave down for the time being.

Penners, I have been thinking about your suggestion that the panels may be reinforceable. Do you have any ideas how that would work?

Here's a photo of the door....

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I'm afraid it's modern repro "neo Tudor" (rather than neo Georgian) and unlikely to be worth the bother of repairing, sorry. I'd like to see a more general view of the house before committing, but I suspect a fairly plain vertically-boarded door might look better. And should not cost £3k

 

[Penners]

Here's a photo of the door....

That looks like a genuine neo-Medieval Tudor deco with pre-Raphaelite, post-modern detail.

 

[LadyArowana]

Here's a photo of the door....

That looks like a genuine neo-Medieval Tudor deco with pre-Raphaelite, post-modern detail.

and fake gothic revival undermounted hinges. I know I shouldn't say this but for some strange reason I quite like it. It reminds me of a fairy tale pantomime set door, doesn't take itself too seriously. I just wish that instead of the glass panel it had one of those tiny doors that can be opened from the inside so you can talk to the person ringing the bell, very hobbitty.

 

[CliffordPope]

Complete with bulls-eye glass, gothic script, and bolt-on fake hinges!
No bell-pull on a chain? Boot scraper?

I think I'd rather knock up something from old planks from a reclamation centre.

 

[agbagb]

Cocoa, yes that me.
Your door won't be to everyones taste, but its "Wood in't'ole" and could be a lot worse. It looks like the bottom rail has suffered a bit, but it could be a keeper for now. ( I'd go with Gareth's suggestion if replacement is on the cards, something off the shelf should be available).

For now though If you don't mind what it looks like on the inside and your available budget is going to be better spent on insulation in the rest of the house: For insulation and security you could fill the recessed panels with insulation (rockwool, polystyrene, polyurathane) and then board over the whole lot (hardboard, plywood or timber panneling). It's a bodge job but quick and cheap.

For draught proofing you could try a what is pobably the cheapest and most cheerful suggestion someone has made on my blog:

"An alternative to spring bronze strip – spring cardboard strip! Based on personal experience.
If you want a very cheap and effective draught seal on a door that has at least a moderate gap all round, you can use a cereal or frozen-pizza packet or other thin card. Thinner is generally better.
Cut the card into strips 1 1/4″ wide. Score a fold along the strips and fold (shiny side against shiny side) so as to give long strips 3/4″ wide, with a half inch flap all along the length. The rough side of the wider part is glued to the door frame with Copydex (apply to both surfaces and allow to dry before putting into place) to allow for removal on repainting, or if in rented accommodation. The folded edge should face towards the door.
If you like, you can run two rows of this strip and stagger the joints.
Usually a piece or two will come off at some point in the year, and it does not work around the lock, but this system can last for years, and is much cheaper than bronze strip. When the door is shut, you won’t see that you have cereal packet in the rebate (all you would see (if you looked hard enough) is the grey card in the gap between the door and the frame)."

 

[Keith Bowman]

Just think how boring the world would be if we all had the same tastes

 

[Cocoa]

Just think how boring the world would be if we all had the same tastes

It would seem that quite a few residents here in the 70's who did all have the same taste, judging from there are a number of houses in my area that have exactly the same door, so if I leave it for long enough, won't it become authentic period detail? :wink: Anyway, it seems that the forum opinion on keep vs replace swung suddenly towards the latter as soon as I posted a picture, which I will take as a nod from you all to go and replace the door but not spend £3k doing so, which was kind of the opinion I was forming myself, so thank you! (and just in case I don't manage to sort it in time for winter, agbagb, I'll start saving my cereal boxes!