Exterior lighting

[JoceAndChris]

Can anyone help choose a period-looking exterior light? It's to go above our scullery door, (and in a couple of years or so 2 more for either side of the porch) which is on the left of the pic, and below. I guess a maximum height of 30 cm or it will look too big for the space.

I've held off buying a cheap one as I dislike buying things twice; I guess our budget is an absolute max of £300 per light. Does anyone own a hanging lantern style, and if so can they say how much the lantern bangs against the wall in the wind? This is a windy spot.

Also, has anyone found a period style light that incorporates a PIR sensor? Because it must be activated by PIR. Failing that, has anyone found an attractive PIR that's not an ugly lump of black plastic?

I guess I'm looking for a antiqued brass finish and nothing too overly Victorian. I usually turn to Jim Lawrence for these sorts of things but their choice in smaller fittings is a bit limited. I also wonder about ships lights, coach lights, clipper lights etc on a cottage that has looked, in the Regency, to ancient Greece for inspiration in its architectural lines. Any thoughts very welcome.

 

[JoceAndChris]

This is the best one I've found to create a formal style that could be Regency-ish but 3 of them works out to equate to a hell of a lot of torch batteries.

http://www.jim-lawrence.co.uk/ProductDetail/5078/Peacock-Lantern

 

[Feltwell]

Joce, whatever you install will be by definition "wrong". Therefore personally I would keep it very simple and go for a galvanised, plain swan neck lamp above the door, such as:-

http://www.hollowaysofludlow.com/catalogue.php?P1=&Clv=3&C1=20&C2=68&C3=478

As for PIR control, lights with built-in PIRs always look wrong to me. No PIR will look "period" but if you go for a separate unit then you've more chance of putting it somewhere unobtrusive. Something like:-

http://www.screwfix.com/p/140-standalone-pir/11291

And get that bloody cat to fix the damage it's done to that old door :wink:

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol: So very glad I stopped him from running at high speed into all the elderly doors, as he wanted to.

And very glad to get your response Feltwell, hoped you might have time to answer as you know the parts so well. That makes me even more convinced the period PIR sensor does not exist. Chris agrees with you on both counts, and whilst I think it's a shame to buy a pretty light and put an ugly PIR sensor nearby they are so wonderful in the dark I wouldn't want to be without them - our garage ones are fantastic for unloading the car etc, as well as being just that bit of a deterrent for vandals murderers and thieves.

Your Holloways of Ludlow looks really nice, more choice than Jim Lawrence, thanks. It's a plain light but I agree that the fancier it is the more "wrong" it could look.

 

[88v8]

Here we are
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-Exterior-Wall-Lights-Victorian-Albert-Lamps-for-outside-use-/300785891120?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Lighting_Lamps_Lighting_SM&hash=item46083c7730
Pubs sell Ouzo, which is drunk by ancient Greeks.
So, thereyougo. Hic.

Ivor

 

[Zebra]

Beware of buying a light with an integral PIR, especially if it is one you really like and have spent some money on. PIRs fail after a while. They just do. They have tiny printed circuit boards in them and are out in the frost and snow and the baking sun, and these days if you get five years out of one you're doing well. So a separate unit is a better idea from the point of view that you can change it. But you won't get a nice looking one, no. When considering its position be aware that it detects movement better when objects are moving across its field of vision than towards it. Other option could be a combination of dusk/dawn sensor (which should be positioned higher than the light so as not to be affected by it, or even somewhere else entirely, not even near the light) and timer, so that it only comes on when it is dark, between certain hours.

 

[worms]

I guess our budget is an absolute max of £300 per light.
Any thoughts very welcome.

I know I am this forum's resident cheapskate...but, Joce, £300 per light?! :shock:

Our front door light was less than £30 in B&Q (can't find the exact model but a bit like this). Quality seems OK and it has been exposed to the full force of the prevailing weather for about three or so years now.

 

[Feltwell]

And very glad to get your response Feltwell, hoped you might have time to answer as you know the parts so well.

That makes me even more convinced the period PIR sensor does not exist. Chris agrees with you on both counts, and whilst I think it's a shame to buy a pretty light and put an ugly PIR sensor nearby they are so wonderful in the dark I wouldn't want to be without them - our garage ones are fantastic for unloading the car etc, as well as being just that bit of a deterrent for vandals murderers and thieves.

Your Holloways of Ludlow looks really nice, more choice than Jim Lawrence, thanks. It's a plain light but I agree that the fancier it is the more "wrong" it could look.

You flatter me far, far too much. I really wouldn't put a fancy light there though - it is after all very much a "working" part of the house and had outside lights existed back then a plain functional light would have been fitted above a scullery door I reckon.

You can of course put the PIR where you want, but you have to run a cable between that and the light. I did put some radio-frequency PIRs in soon after I bought Feltwell Towers, but they only lasted about 6 months. I went a bit security light mad - just after we bought the house some thieving little scrote nicked the mirrors off my car - twice - whilst it was parked on the driveway. The radio-frequency PIR meant I could have a PIR stationed away from the house that activated the lights on the house, but they were just too unreliable. Luckily, it turned out that my security fears were unfounded and we've had no further problems in the 6 years since.

Zebra has got a very valid point - PIR's seem to either last forever or break within a year, or the photocells go so your lights are activated during the day as well (that's what the current ones at Feltwell Towers are like - another job to do :roll: ). A cheap generic stand-alone PIR that can quickly be changed is a good idea.

I know I am this forum's resident cheapskate....

Nah, I'll give you a run for your money I reckon. I also have one of B&Q's finest, this time on the side of the garage - it's not bad, but doesn't really stand close inspection. Looks OK from a few feet away.

http://www.diy.com/nav/decor/lighti...-With-White-Glass-Shade-Wall-Lantern-10307585

Joce, if you like that swan neck design then why not look for a second-hand one with ready made patina? :wink: Will probably need rewiring and a new bulbholder though, although that's not overly difficult. Something like this:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-C...708&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1&sd=221136100161&
or this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-S...974?pt=UK_Garden_Lighting&hash=item43b4203b06

 

[Owain]

search on ebay for coughtrie and you'll get nice period bulkhead and swan neck lights, some at silly and some at affordable prices.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Hmm, I think buying something that needed work would mean another job for the list Chris never gets through, and another winter where I risk falling down the stairs that are the other side of that door!

I know I am this forum's resident cheapskate...but, Joce, £300 per light?! :shock:

:lol: Maybe you have children, a life? I guess you wouldn't approve my recent purchase in Loches of a pair of exquisite little paper lampshades (no base!) at 150 euros. (and my decision that all our lampshades will be those Parisienne ones in future. Nice lighting is one of the things that makes me happiest.

Beware of buying a light with an integral PIR, especially if it is one you really like and have spent some money on. PIRs fail after a while. They just do.

Thanks for the great advice Zebra, very valuable coming from a DIY queen like yourself. Another vote for the separate sensor then, and interesting to read about the dusk to dawn sensors I haven't heard of.

I really wouldn't put a fancy light there though - it is after all very much a "working" part of the house and had outside lights existed back then a plain functional light would have been fitted above a scullery door I reckon.

Interesting argument, it's the whole facade though isn't it? Someday, when the house is all fixed and beautiful, I'll be sat in the perfectly manicured garden looking at that (in my dreams!) And actually, in 1810 that part of the house was a scrolly-wolly wrought iron pagoda shaped roofed verandah, (like this: http://www.fineiron.co.uk/balconies_verandas_canopies.html) it was the Victorian tenants who turned it into a weird scullery structure. You're probably right though, there's a strong argument that says don't make every object an "look at me" item, some working items just need to be functional. Andf I've got no intention of putting a verandah back, if money becomes available that little extension will be extended a little bit more to make an en suite.

Glad to hear you've had no further problems, I reckon a house that looks very smart and cared for as yours does, with security lighting, is very offputting to miscreants.

 

[Zebra]

Someday, when the house is all fixed and beautiful, I'll be sat in the perfectly manicured garden looking at that (in my dreams!)

Ha ha!! I have those fantasies!! My garden still has a cement mixer, old sheets of ply and drain manholes stuck up two feet in the air where the ground level used to be, and weeds, weeds, weeds. One day, it might be nice!.....

 

[Flyfisher]

Nice topic Joce, especially as it gave Feltwell the chance to post that Holloway website.

I was going to suggest a corner mounted lamp that would provide better illumination for the wider door area, but I've never really seen one I particularly liked - until I saw this one in Feltwell's link: http://www.hollowaysofludlow.com/product.php?%20P1=&%20Clv=4&%20C1=20&%20C2=68&%20C3=478&%20C4=1228&%20id=2704

I would link this to a dusk-to-dawn sensor with a timer to switch it off between, say, midnight and 7am. I used this combination in a previous house and it worked far better than just a timer because there's no need to constantly adjust the timer to account for seasonal sunset/sunrise times.

This is the light sensor I've used before: http://www.screwfix.com/p/standalone-photocell/11330

I'd also second the comments about PIR sensors; the integrated ones always seem to spoil the look of the lamp, unless it's a fairly 'industrial' style one in the first place. A separate sensor can often be more discreetly located, though the downside can be additional wiring complexity.

 

[Zebra]

This is the light sensor I've used before: http://www.screwfix.com/p/standalone-photocell/11330

Yes that's the kind of thing, located somewhere where artificial light can't fool it into thinking that it's daytime when it's not, including the light it controls!

 

[Feltwell]

I reckon a house that looks very smart and cared for as yours does

Very kind, but alas not true! The pictures flatter, but up close it's not so good - the house and the owner, that is. The exterior joinery at Feltwell Towers *has* to be my focus for next summer, if we actually get one. I was going to do work on it this summer, but it was just so wet - that's my excuse. It really needs some work, especially the lounge bay window, which to be honest I'm dreading doing - it could be a right can of worms.

I need to (try to!) suspend my usual obsessive perfectionist streak and just get on with it - even if the result is only 90% right it will be much better than what it's like now.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh, exactly the same thing happened tome this summer with the window joinery. Next year we'll get to grips with it! At least it's on the radar.

though the downside can be additional wiring complexity.

Thanks for your comments on the separate sensors FF, very useful. Chris is very very good at wiring and doesn't believe it's illegal; he's rewiring the whole house under the firm impression that the only thing you can't really do is a whole new circuit in the garden (which we need). I'm glad he's rewiring as though the cottage's first electricity (installed in the 80s!) is OK there have been a couple of dodgy cost-cutting things.

I would link this to a dusk-to-dawn sensor with a timer to switch it off between, say, midnight and 7am. I used this combination in a previous house and it worked far better than just a timer because there's no need to constantly adjust the timer to account for seasonal sunset/sunrise times

Hmm, he's often back later, I'm often insomniac and go out to see the chickens, don't think that would really work for us. Think we'll go with an ordinary PIR sensor, but thanks helping to think it through.

 

[Keithj]

The PIR and the sensors don't have to be on the lights themselves - in fact, it's often better if they aren't.

We ended up with a dawn-to-dusk sensor that turns on the lights by the gate, fed from a timeswitch to turn off between 1.30am and 3pm. The PIRs on the cartlodge and the workshop switch the simple lights (similar to the ones recommended above). The PIRs are small, and in inconspicuous places.

There was a little chasing out of walls to lose the cables, but careful planning kept that to a minimum. The underground wiring to the gate and the cartlodge was done before we bought the house, and I haven't messed with it.

We also have a couple of lights by the front and back doors, switched the old fashioned way from inside.
The net result is low-level lighting during darkness, till 1.30am. Walk into the drive and more lights come on. Walk towards the house, and more come on. The door and the lock can be seen clearly on the darkest night.

The tricky bit was angling the PIRs so that the local cats don't turn the lights on and annoy us at 3am.

 

[Flyfisher]

though the downside can be additional wiring complexity.

Thanks for your comments on the separate sensors FF, very useful. Chris is very very good at wiring . . . .

I wasn't so much thinking about the wiring circuitry as much as the additional cable routing. I reckon 'electrical' jobs are really 90% building jobs and only 10% actually connecting things up.

 

[JoceAndChris]

You're absolutely right. The channelling and dust we've created here! Still, it's nice to have lights where you want them and fortunately the other side of that door leads to a very rough room anyway, more of a storage area than a room really, with the consumer unit and trunking all over the place. There'll be a bit of drilling through but not as difficult as our creation of ceiling lights where there were none!

 

[Zebra]

Shall I get on my high horse? I shall, if you don't mind. This is not correct that the only thing you cannot legally do yourselves is a new circuit in the garden. You can of course do any electrical work DIY if you notify it to Building Control and have them arrange to inspect it. Otherwise though, "notifiable" work which needs to be done by a person registered on a Part P scheme includes any wiring in a kitchen, bathroom or outdoors, including circuit alterations, not just new circuits.
Also, Flyfisher, I disagree that it's 90% building work, there's also an awful lot of "knowing the Regulations" which of course nobody sees, and you forget about the percentage of tea-drinking, without which nothing would ever get done.

 

[agbagb]

AGB's missus
Zebra, I know all about "electrickity" (my dad's one) I have issues with your percentages. At least two per cent on tea and 4 per cent on kitkats :lol: