EU and imperial measures

[Nemesis]

It seems that the EU has at last seen sense and it is expected that we can keep our imperial weights and measures, which is good news for all those places where traditional signposts have been restored in recent years:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6988521.stm

 

[ljn]

Nice signs.

But I wish England would go metric.

I find it anoying when I go to the supermarke and try to work out which tomatoes to buy: one kind are by the box, the other has a price per pound and another has a price per kilo... I know it's basic maths to work it out, but one measuring system would be practical.

Americans have an even worse system, where they use milimeters for small measurements and empirical for large- ending in a lost satelite and a lot of head scratching for Autocad users.

Once, I had to design a graphic for a major company. The brief came from an advertising agency, including the width in inches and the hight in milimeters.

In medeval times, most city states had their own systems arms, legs, feet, fingers... but it proved better to have one system and metric prevailed.

I'm sure you could still keep a heritage signpost anyway- or display a weight ALSO in any measure you want -scoop, £ per pound etc).

 

[Nemesis]

But imperial and metric measures are displayed at the same time in most cases, although these days metric seems to be the most favoured, because of the proposed enforeced changes. In fact there have been 'metric martyr' prosecutions for traders only displaying imperial.

I still work in imperial - I don't like recipes, for example, which aren't in pounds and ounces, and I prefer ordering a pint of beer to anything metric!

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6988709.stm


Actually, I don't think these signposts could be kept if the EU insisted on metrication. Many already lost out to be replaced by standard reflective fingers.

These are all over in Cumbria and other places too have been restoring them. The one pictured is listed at Grade II, but many others are not.

If you click on this link to the listing description, you will see the sorry sight it was only a few years ago...

http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/search/details.aspx?pid=1&id=78021

 

[MdB]

Yes, I drink pints and yes, I only know my height in feet and inches but otherwise I use metric units for everything.

For those that love imperial, try telling me how much a fluid ounce of olive oil actually is (both volume and weight). I bet you revert to metric units to work it out. (answers in any units you like, keep to UK imperial units as US units will just make it even more complicated)

I do love the old signposts though(*) and don't really see a need to change them even if we do move to Km - not that I think that will happen.

(*) unless its dark and I'm trying to find out where to go.

 

[Nemesis]

A fluid ounceof olive oil is something I can't think I ever use - but if I did I have a glass measure!

Oil is usually measured in tablespoons or a dash from the bottle.

 

[Penners]

I wish [the UK] would go metric.

Me too. Properly.

There's no reason why wholehearted metrication means we have to get rid of quaint old fingerposts, pint mugs or whatever - they still have a historical charm and can remain to serve the nostalgia market.

But for practical, technical purposes, the current half-hearted metrication is a dog's breakfast. And the longer we allow the imperial and metric systems to remain alongside each other, the more people will remain confused.

When we decimalised our currency, we allowed a reasonable changeover period, then the old £sd units were killed stone-dead. That's what we should now do with the old imperial weights and measures.

 

[biffvernon]

But for practical, technical purposes, the current half-hearted metrication is a dog's breakfast.

Maybe I'm a dog. I use metric in the workshop as 1mm is a convenient quantity. Small enough for the accuracy I need, not so small that the numbers become unmanageable. In the yard I use inches, feet and cubic feet. When boards are measured in thicknesses of inches it is much easier to calculate cubic feet of timber in ones head than if one attempts to do it in mm and cubic metres.

Use the measures that are appropriate to the circumstance. One size does not fit all.

 

[MdB]

A fluid ounceof olive oil is something I can't think I ever use - but if I did I have a glass measure!

I chose olive oil as its something relatively easy to find the density of but I'll let you choose any other substance apart from water.

My point in this is that fluid ounces has to be the most stupid unit ever invented as with all substances apart from water, a fluid ounce doesn't weigh an ounce. (and even a fluid ounce of water doesn't weigh an ounce unless it is at 62°F)

Oil is usually measured in tablespoons or a dash from the bottle.

So how big is a tablespoon? How many tablespoons in a pint for example? Try answering that without resorting to metric (which you can't as a tablespoon is defined only in metric units in the UK). In cooking, is your tablespoon heaped or not? Most recipes don't specify this and it makes a big difference and I never know what to do. If they say 30mL then it is very clear and unambiguous.

I'm sure nobody uses a dash to mean anything other than an arbitary small amount of stuff but the Americans actually define a dash as meaning an eighth of a teaspoon which is far smaller than what I at least would take it to mean.

 

[MdB]

When boards are measured in thicknesses of inches it is much easier to calculate cubic feet of timber in ones head than if one attempts to do it in mm and cubic metres.

100mm x 300mm x 3m = 0.1m x 0.3m x 3m = 0.09m^3

3 inches x 10 inches x 3 ft = erm.. = 3/12 x 10/12 x 3 = 3 x 10 x 3 / (12 x 12) = 90/144 = 45/72 = 5/8 = 0.625 ft^3

I know which one I find easier....

 

[Nemesis]

It simply doesn't matter how much a fluid ounce weighs - if I ever have to measure one I have a measuring jug!

Tablespoons - well, most experienced cooks know what to do. I have a tablespoon which I use to measure, and things turn out OK.

As it is a Geo silver one I suspect it isn't in metric! Or not designed to be.

Oil would be a level tablespoon, and that's the usual measure, otherwise it would say a heaped tablespoon.

No one complains about my cakes!

American recipes use a different system anyhow, cups - I have a set of US cup measures for using my US Bundt pan recipes.

http://home.clara.net/brianp/cooking.html

NB: In the UK, the tablespoon is now defined as 18ml., and the teaspoon as 5ml. However, if you look at commercially available measures, the tablespoon is shown as equivalent to 15ml., with the teaspoon as 5ml. However, in reality there are 4 teaspoons to the tablespoon!

 

[MdB]

A good cooks answer Nemisis

You are right of course, in cooking the measurements don't matter that much. I'm an engineer so they do matter a lot to me in my work. People get units wrong all the time which is why I like metric as it is so much easier to spot the mistakes. Having said that, people get metric units wrong as well. Yesterday, I found a supplier of UV lamps for reptile cages who had the required power output a factor of 1000 wrong due to a units mix up. I wonder how many people have been cooking their lizards because of this...

 

[MdB]

NB: In the UK, the tablespoon is now defined as 18ml., and the teaspoon as 5ml. However, if you look at commercially available measures, the tablespoon is shown as equivalent to 15ml., with the teaspoon as 5ml. However, in reality there are 4 teaspoons to the tablespoon!

Who defines it as 18mL?
One definition is 5/8 of a fluid ounce or 17.76mL. Wikipedia has it defined as 15mL. Australia apparantly uses 20mL.

The National Weights and Measures Laboratory gives it as 15mL so I would suggest that this figure is correct.

 

[MdB]

I know that nobody on the forum uses them , but aren't plasterboard sheets 4 feet by 8 feet by 12 or more mm?

Whats that all about?

Builders bodge units the same way as their building work...

Plaster board is actually 1200 x 2400mm as standard I believe. See here

 

[Penners]

In the yard I use inches, feet and cubic feet. When boards are measured in thicknesses of inches it is much easier to calculate cubic feet of timber in ones head than if one attempts to do it in mm and cubic metres.

Yes, in the yard you must use inches and feet. But in the metre, it's much easier, as MdB has demonstrated below.

For one's own purposes, it doesn't matter whether one uses feet, chains, cubits, roentgens or chetwirts. But for communication with others, a convenient, internationally recognised standard is essential. And that's the metric system.

 

[Penners]

Plasterboard is actually 1200 x 2400mm as standard I believe.

2400mm x 1200mm is at long last ousting the older 2440 x 1220, which was a hangover dimension based on the old 8ft x 4ft.

Mind you, I've had hangovers bigger than that...

 

[Nemesis]

I've just poured a tablespoon of water from my Geo spoon into a modern measure.

It gives it as
20 ml

just under three quarters of an ounce

4 teaspoons

and one and a quarter tablespoons.

I also used a modern tablespoon, which gave even more generous measures!

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I've just poured a tablespoon of water from my Geo spoon into a modern measure.

It gives it as
20 ml

just under three quarters of an ounce

4 teaspoons

and one and a quarter tablespoons.

I also used a modern tablespoon, which gave even more generous measures!

So it would appear to be a metric Georgian teaspoon. (It's not Napoleonic rather than Georgian, is it?)

 

[Nemesis]

Bateman. Would need to look up date, but it has certainly the head of the British monarch on it...

It's a tablespoon though. I haven't tested a Geo teaspoon as yet, but I will.

 

[Lime]

To the contrary of many opinions on this thread I believe imperial to be founded on a much more sensible basis.
None of this circumference of the earth malarky and so many atoms in this that or another, good old imperial is based on practical use.
There is never so much confusion between a foot and an inch as there is between a mm and cm for example.
Such metric mistakes and inaccuracies happen all the time.
When I was a child I knew what a foot looked like but talk to children today and they will give a variety of answers as to what a mm is.
Ask what a decametre is and the vast majority of the population will not know.
(How long have metric units been taught in schools? They taught it to me.)
And as for all this wonderful maths made easy by metrication try filling a cardboard box with tins to see how useless the decimal system really is.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

To the contrary to many opinions on this thread I believe imperial to be founded on a much more sensible basis.
None of this circumference of the earth malarky and so many atoms in this that or another, good old imperial is based on practical use.
There is never so much confusion between a foot and an inch as there is between a mm and cm for example.
Such metric mistakes and inaccuracies happen all the time.
When I was a child I knew what a foot looked like but talk to children today and they will give a variety of answers as to what a mm is.
Ask what a decametre is and the vast majority of the population will not know.
(How long have metric units been taught in schools? They taught it to me.)
And as for all this wonderful maths made easy by metrication try filling a cardboard box with tins to see how useless the decimal system really is.

Yes, it's certainly amazing how the poor benighted 'eathens in most of the rest of the world manage fine with metric.