Escaping modern aesthetics

[plasticpigeon]

It's all around us. It is all that is available without working very hard and hunting far and wide. I think the modern aesthetic doesn't really exist. It is anything easy and lacking in knowledge and craft. Even making stuff ones self is no guarantee of ending up with something elegant and authentic looking, such are the influences around, and such is the scarcity of knowledge available. What precipitated this state of depression? I watched double your house for half the money. Someone created a huge, white, glitzy and ungainly mash up of incongruous features and details. The inside was little better, enormous open plan living, with the magic shadow gaps mentioned many times. Razor sharp edges everywhere, bright white decor, geometric everything, very hard on the eyes. Apparently they had "created" £700,000 of equity! For making something revolting! If that is true then it means that many people (rich people too) aspire to something horrific, and aren't just accepting of it.

Then I went for a walk, and an attractive old red brick pub near me is being turned into a buffet restaurant and is being rendered for no reason other than this is the craze at the moment, a bit like painting mahogany furniture battleship grey or Annie Sloan (who is she?) white. It will end up magnolia and the leaded light crittal windows will no doubt be replaced with the chepest plastic. What part of my brain is missing, that stops me from understanding all this.

 

[malcolm]

Modern education is to blame in my view. In the past highly skilled tradesmen were the norm. Nowadays education is single mindedly aimed at getting people into university and the skills and understanding are not passed on.

They built a new house next door. The construction relies on everything working as intended for the life of the building. I guess the life will be around 50 years. It is disposable. I don't understand why we accept the idea of things with a short life these days. Something to do with preserving the environment?

It is odd that doing things properly isn't just not mainstream but is considered quite odd.

 

[Flyfisher]

Define 'properly'

I'm not arguing against your basic premise, far from it, but it takes all sorts. I tend not to get too exercised about such things. Live and let live . . . anything else just causes grief and stress.

 

[Zebra]

PP I agree. It is commerce. Things must constantly be updated or we will all stop consuming. It can be seen in fashion, interiors, toys, anything. These were all adequate for anyone's needs 50 years ago, but must constantly be reinvented to give us all something to need.
I suppose one might be consoled by the idea that a few of those modern monstruosities will be revered in future decades and centuries as gems typical of their era. The rest is dross, as is so much of modern life.
I suppose all you can do is preserve your small corner, sticking two fingers (hooves, claws, whatever) up to the rest of the world, and feel glad that you're not playing the game. Although we all play the game to a greater or lesser extent, unless we live off-grid in an organic crofters cottage on the western isles, with a horse for transport and eating home grown cabbage. Oh, don't get me started, look what you've done.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

The most scary thing of all is that people seem to have lost the ability to be individuals, and what infuriates me more than anything is looking at houses for sale, no matter what the price bracket, you can see that Vendors are completely brainwashed into the leather sofas/the high backed dining chairs around the table with the ubiquitous vase of flowers dumped in the middle look. Horrid, horrid, horrid.
I opened the details of a Grade 2 listed that is on the market in Norfolk for around 750k. The Agents have described it as a fine listed building carefully restored and beautifully presented. What did I see?-- a lovely old timber framed house circa 1600 no internal walls, every exposed beam highly varnished, whitewashed throughout, and standard DFS type furniture throughout . Restored? I think not. Renovated? -I think not. Stripped more like. How did they get away with doing that?

 

[steveb]

basically, you can't buy taste

on the plus side, it means that un-renovated, historic properties will be cheaper to buy for those that have what you can't buy*.

*in theory

 

[88v8]

The past is being wiped away. The small things, windows doors chimneys with or without smoke old glass fences hedges gutters roofs front gardens painted woodwork shopfronts cobbles granite kerbs , the ambience furniture and fittings of our aunts' Victorian & Edwardian interiors that we remember from our youth.
Yesterday, needing to find the postcode of our first house where we lived 35 years ago, I found myself looking at it on Streetview. Ye Gods. When we left, it and most other houses still had front gardens and their original windows/doors/leaded lights. Need I say, not now.

Before moving here, we spent three years looking for a house that hadn't been ruined. Many that appeared promising had been vandalised internally, as Jocelyn said. White spaces, internal walls removed along with all old woodwork, downlighters - nearly always a bad sign, along with tracks of spotlights - exposed brickwork, plasterboard, well, you know.
And the pricier the house, the more chance the interior was just ....big... impersonal, nasty white space.
One could recreate. A pastiche. But not the same. Never the same as an original.

And other houses that passed the 'interior test' turned out to be marooned in a sea of tat. That's the other problem - it's no good preserving a few buildings if their context, their setting, their streetscape or landscape, has been erased.

I think most people have no taste.
Or they don't think of their homes in terms of taste. Just a living space.
I remember driving through the suburbs of San Francisco, where 'do what thy will' seemed to be the architectural theme. Block buildings, flat roofing, aircon units poked on top, ugly windows, what's generally termed Redneck Architecture. Left to themselves, that's what people do.
Partly a matter of money. Partly.
I used to enjoy looking at old buildings as we drove around. Then white paint arrived, then aluminium windows, then bongo wood, then plastic. Nothing much to look at now.

Also, yes, it's always easier to use current techniques and materials. When we extended our previous house, of which I try not to think too often, I provided the raised-head brass screws for the window fittings. The contractors were good. They had done excellent work. But around each screw the wood was split; it transpired that the chap who'd done the job had never before used proper screws with a shank - he was accustomed to drilling one size of hole and just driving them in. As the builder said to me, it's hard to get the staff.....

Ivor

 

[malcolm]

The guy who made my fancy new window (replica of the original with lots of mouldings) commented that if there were ever a time to make that sort of thing it is now. It is quick and easy with modern tools if you also have an experienced craftsman to hand.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I've made that mistake Ivor, not drilling a hole for a shank of a screw and splitting wood. I didn't know better. I am fitting my bathroom. I have gone to great lengths to make it nice, and I've gone against so much advice from various people I know who seem to like to offer unsolicited advice, but I still used tile spacers that were too big. I remember now that in the kitchen I used 1mm spacers against everyones advice and it looked great. I used 2mm upstairs as I was knackered and I just used what the local shop had and they were the smallest. I totally forgot what I had used before. It looks ok, but it would have been better with 1mm. There are lots of examples like that. The details make a hige difference. I have been trying to choose a sofa recently. We bough Parker Knoll so decent quality, and a traditional style with turned legs and casters, but a very bland colour (to appease my partner, and I have been allowed a persian rug because of it), but I realised I hadn't a clue what I did want, as all I ever see is white and beige. Old country houses usually have very large grand interiors so the style is difficult to transfer to my little place, I didn't want chintz, I though pattern would be nice, but was stuck on colour. The Victorians were wild in their choices. I've seen Victorian tiling that has turquoise brown and mustard together. Who would do that now? But it looks amazing. So in my red room, maybe a dark blue would go, or green, probably not yellow. The point I am making is that to avoid a clash, the modern default is white cream or beige. So bland, but almost impossible to escape without references that work.

 

[DJH]

During the week we were invited out for dinner with friends at their converted watermill house and very nice it was too. Afterwards an architects drawing of a proposed new bay window was produced and it was announced that I was doing the lead covering on the roof... :lol: The drawing was detailed and specified the lead roof along with dressed Kilkenny limestone plinth and cills and PVC windows... :shock: :shock: :shock:

However, meeting the builder the next day he, yes he :shock: , proposed that with my backing we would tell my friends they should have hardwood timber windows to which they readily agreed...

Maybe things are looking up meeting a builder with vision and compliant clients.

Doug

 

[mims&pip]

I agree with so much that has been said here by PP, Ivor and Jocelyn in particular. Pip and myself hate following trends (both interiors-wise and in clothing etc) and cannot abide the current fad for all things bland and minimal.

When choosing houses to purchase we have always gone out of our way - literally, buying places well out of our comfort zone location-wise in order to obtain the perfect period gem - to find the untouched, unmodernised, dare I say unloved* property over and above the *remuddled to within an inch of its life" house most of our contemporaries would have selected.

In fact since my very first rented flat as a student I have been drawn to both older buildings and eclectic interior styling - I hesitate to say "antique", as my purse couldn't stretch to such delights back then - furnishing my flat in a Georgian house with junk shop funds that included an amazing, original Art Deco three piece suite, a Scaninavian mid century dining set, pre-Raphaelite prints and a vast collection of Sylvac rabbit ornaments :roll:

We have always tried to behave sympathetically towards our homes - only once did we install UPVC windows and that was on the rear elevation of a Victorian house in a conservation area when we were too young to know better. Even then we wouldn't have dreamt of removing the original sash bays at the front though.

I think in over twenty years of furnishing our homes together we have only ever purchased a new sofa on three occasions - and those were period style reproductions from Multiyork. I can't say I've never been into a DFS, but I certainly haven't been into anywhere of that ilk for ten years or more. We do, however, have a very nice traditional style John Lewis sofa that we bought in barely used condition from eBay - retail price in excess of £2000, we paid £300

Indeed, the first port of call for us when purchasing furniture - or indeed virtually everything for the home that we cannot make ourselves - is always eBay. Looking around the room I'm currently sitting in (our "snug"), the following are eBay purchases - Liberty sideboard, John Lewis sofa, arts & crafts sofa with original embroidery, fireplace, art nouveau cabinet used as tv stand, vintage repro art nouveau side table, art nouveau magazine rack, art nouveau copper mirror, upholstery fabric, sofa throw, vintage fringing on cushions/curtains, arts & crafts style coffee table, majority of the art work, frames & ornaments (of which there are many!), two period style lamps, vintage curtain pole & door furniture.

It would actually be simpler to list the items that weren't eBay purchases :lol: - A Voysey style rug from Liberty, two bookcases (auction finds), a tv (from the high street unfortunately!), tons of books, lamps from a flea market, antique fender & wine glasses (although even some of these were found on eBay!).

Apart from the fact they were found on eBay, the one thing these items have in common is that they are all good quality, made to last and (allowing for the usual vagaries of fashion) will not date per se as they are classic, timeless pieces. Even more pertinently, majority of the things we own were not purchased new, but are older, tradionally crafted pieces.

This room is not unique in the fact that it contains 80% eBay items - it is representative of our whole house/life - even our trusty Landy was found there!

I cannot imagine shopping on the high street/IKEA (although I don't object to the occasional visit and Pip's current desk was bought there when we were selling our last house as we needed something smaller :wink: )/big shed stores for all your household/furnishing requirements.....it must be so mind-numbingly boring! Also, the idea that you change your decor because it is no longer fashionable! We have some things that we bought fifteen-twenty years ago and have no intention of replacing/upgrading them! We have had the same curtains at the last four houses - because they are fantastic quality, they compliment our *stuff* and most importantly for me - we love them.....I couldn't give a fig as to whether they are considered trendy or not :shock:

Last year when we had just finished our house in Wiltshire we were visited by Pip's brother and sister-in-law. They are typical of the type that change their decoration every couple of years and accessorise from the likes of Homebase with items that are not only shoddily manufactured, but are designed to date quickly. I have only seen pictures of their home, but it's one of those with the ubiquitous floral feature walls, glossy kitchen and those awful words stuck everywhere - "bathe", "eat" etc! They walked into our home, having previously seen it three years before when we'd just moved in and it was a building site full of boxes, and commented that it appeared to have no one style as it was an odd mix of things and that nothing "went together" :roll: I know which home I'd rather have. Give me my beautiful - if a trifle drafty - Crittall windows, hand built kitchen and open fires any day.

Mims x

* Because "unloved" often equates to can't be assed to change stuff and therefore much of the original remains

 

[malcolm]

I agree neglect is fabulous Mims - my place was neglected horribly for 100 years, and apart from some cement render (unfortunately invented 100 years ago) it has survived with an almost complete lack of cement pointing or gypsum plastering. It makes the place so much easier to restore.

I haven't got around to interior decoration. I don't like traditional interiors in dark colours and wouldn't have what some have posted on here. I'm working from a gloomy interior with plenty of mock tudor applied in the late 1970s and need to turn the lights on in the daytime. Some demolition of flat roofed bits should let a bit more light in bit but the interior will need to be white, perhaps with a little mock tudor remaining. Someone else can do something else later if they want.

I watched one of those daytime TV programmes about escaping to the country and wondered how they got away with stripping out a grade 2 listed building so much.

 

[TheRoost]

Agree with everything said.

Pet hate when looking at houses for sale is a nice old house fitted with a cheap 'bling' kitchen that is poorly made, badly designed and bares no resemblance to the rest of the house. It seems to be that average people go with whatever is easiest, laziest, minimal thought - pick a kitchen from a DIY shed down the road (probably way way overpriced for what it is) and just go with the latest shiny trend that they saw on a TV ad.

Another hate is wooden furniture sold by the big retailers, it is usually quite expensive but comes flat packed from half way around the world, from poor quality timber or MDF, produced on machinery and sprayed horrid satin brilliant white by a robot, while they dump their pollutants in the local river. Totally soulless and a waste of resources. A couple of years ago we decided that we would only buy really old second hand pieces or as a last resort if we had to buy new, it would have to be crafted in this country.

 

[Roger H]

Those

old glass fences

were never a good idea though were they? :wink:

 

[Penners]

I'm not arguing against your basic premise, far from it, but it takes all sorts. I tend not to get too exercised about such things. Live and let live . . . anything else just causes grief and stress.

I'm with FF.

There's a Latin maxim: "De gustibus non est disputandum", which means "in matters of taste there is no argument". In other words, taste is not an absolute, it's entirely subjective. There's no point in arguing about it because it means something different to every person.

Just do what I do: look around your own domain and congratulate yourself on your own wonderful taste (while pitying all those who don't share it). :wink:

 

[chuckey]

We sold our Victorian 4 bedroomed semi about 4 years ago. The new owners plus their 10 year old, needed 3 bathrooms with a fantastic outside stack pipe, a loft extension with an ensuite for the MIL. They took out my downstairs loo/shower room. Converted the back reception room into a kitchen, the conservatory into a dining room. Thus leaving the 22 feet by 8 feet galley kitchen unused and the old dining room also unused. Oh yes, one of the bedrooms which now has the stair case for the loft conversion is narrow (and unused). They have replaced the rotten 50s front room fire place with the black slate one from the old back room (which I painted white). They are really proud of the "new" house. Not so sure myself.
Frank

 

[plasticpigeon]

A lot of people need to put their "stamp" on a place, without really knowing what that is. In its most basic form, I think this simply ends up being a change from how it was. I believe in many cases it would be less harmful for the new owners to widdle in the corner and be done with it.

 

[MatthewC]

A lot of people need to put their "stamp" on a place, without really knowing what that is. In its most basic form, I think this simply ends up being a change from how it was. I believe in many cases it would be less harmful for the new owners to widdle in the corner and be done with it.

You're right, PP, it seems to be a modern thing that people feel a need to buy something and change it to their own idea of what it should be; there are lots of professionals who are glad to help them do it! The trouble (we know :wink: ) is that you need to think very carefully about changing old buildings and also take your time about it; however, that is totally contrary to what today's buyers think - they are always in a hurry nowadays and see an old building as a prospect for "adding value" (dreadful phrase in this context!).

If I may re-phrase what Penners said above,

Just do what I do: look around your own domain and congratulate yourself on your own wonderful taste (while pitying all those who don't share it). :wink:

"look around your own domain and congratulate yourself on the work on your own wonderful old property (while pitying all those who don't appreciate such things)".

Matthew

 

[Flyfisher]

You're right, PP, it seems to be a modern thing that people feel a need to buy something and change it to their own idea of what it should be;

I'm not convinced it's a modern thing. Our C16 timber frame house was butchered a few hundred years ago and 'modernised' into contemporary Georgian fashion, with huge holes cut in the original close-studded oak frame to make way for large sash windows. Interior decoration was similarly 'modern' with ghastly inappropriate additions such as Adam style fireplaces etc. :wink:

"PPUKers" of the day would no doubt have been as horrified as we are when someone installs uPVC windows today, and certainly none of the changes would have been granted LBC for such an inappropriate change of style and partial destruction of such an original building. But, a few more centuries on, the house is deemed worthy of the sort of protection that would have prevented its evolution (in its current form) in the first place.

Perhaps the truly modern thing is the apparent trend to resist any changes to anything - new housing is resisted, new roads are resisted, wind farms are resisted, etc, and permission is seemingly required for almost everything. Yet on the other hand, no one would seriously consider true period living in the sense of candles, gaslights, and no electrical appliances.

People are full of contradictions. C'est la vie.

 

[Flyfisher]

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