English Heritage Paint *LINK*

[Anonymous]

He's certainly an authority on colours, apossibly paint as well. This is mass market stuff though. However, according to Peter, the joy of 'real' paint was the way the pigment was held in suspension - being not mashed to bits in mass production. He likened it to a fruit cake craefully hand made to retain the fruit whole, as opposed to being all crushed up in a mechanical mixer.

I was so looking forward to trying that!

 

[Anonymous]

I'm in full agreement with the sentiments here. This is all about colour and nothing to do with the make-up of the paint.

It's modern stuff, that's all. These days most people will think that all they have to do is use a 'period' colour and they will have got it right, but sadly that's far from the truth.

If you look carefully, you will find that F&B have been made to drop all links to the National Trust, this happened a while back. I have the F&B book called 'Paint', and inside is a picture of a restoration of some huge mansion room, towering plaster decorations etc. The work area set up in the middle shows loads of unmarked tins, pots and trays that someone has obviously made their own paints in, with a couple of very shiny new tins of F&B placed conspicuously for the photo shoot! That says it all really.

English Heritage should not have done this, but then they shouldn't have done a number of things and without the funding I guess they have little choice. I'm disappointed that the folks they have teamed up with over this don't even offer a token lime paint or distemper though.

Sue

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't used them, but I've listed them as possibly interesting because Ty-Mawr sell them, that's Aglaia paints. Their leader is more towards the benefits to health and the environment, but there is some mention of breathability etc.

The list of ingredients does at least contain things natural, what we don't know from this is what the binders are. May be worth phoning Ty-Mawr for further information as they sell it.

Sue


http://www.naturalpaintsonline.co.uk/index.html

 

[Anonymous]

Evelyn

I live in the Lea Valley and would like to know where all this wildlife lives? maybe next to all the burnt out Fords or shopping trolleys or even the used drug addict needles that are all over the place. I know that the Olympics have taken over the world - especially down in East London but it is an area which is in need of some TLC as it is the 2nd poorest area in the whole of the UK after Tower Hamlets (2 miles up the road). I dont know where you are but I can asure you that this place is grim and I hate to say it but a bit of limewash or distemper is not hiding the fact that in some areas of this city we have serious poverty and they need help.

But back on subject I looked at some of this paint in a frilly little 'Period theme' shop and was also horrified by this cop out by EH.

 

[Anonymous]

I also know the Lea Valley, although obviously not as well as you, but I do know there are wildlife areas which locals have been tending amongst all this dereliction. Many are very angry about what is proposed. Not everyone sees sport as the be all and end all of life!

I appreciate the fact that the place needs some serious money spending on it, and spending now, not in the future, so why that couldn't have been done without the Olympics beats me. Part of the big sell for that was the fact it would 'regenerate' the area. It's a complex topic, but it's another land grab really, as with Pathfinders in the north.

There are many interesting buildings which will be bulldozed, although these could be retained and re-used with the Olympics the land will be more valuable so they will be demolished.

The costs of course will soar, and Londoners are going to have to pay for that from council tax.

It will end up as with so many other places - eg Docklands - new and expensive 'iconic' buildings and mass market hotels set amongst wasteland.

 

[Anonymous]

Aglaia paints are German, made by Beecks Farbwerke. The binders are not alkyds and acrylics derived from petrochemicals but are plant based oils and resins. Maybe Konrad can give us more information about this company but they do have a very informative website:


Beeck Farbwerke

 

[Anonymous]

I e-mailed Little Greene Paints and have just had a phone call from their Technical Director. He told me that:
Some natural pigments, chemically modified to produce a more stable and contant colour are used along with synthetic dyes.
Binders are based on synthetic petrochemicals but include some vegetable resins and oils.
Data on both pigments and binders are not publicly available.
Their acrylic based paints have never been rcommended for use on historic materials such as lime plaster. Data on breathability is not publicly available but these paints are not described as microporous.
While the 'English Heritage' range reflects some 60 historic colours, these paints are not historic in their formulation.
As a result of a request from English Heritage, new ranges of Little Greene Limewash and Distemper are to launched soon, possibly in about a week.

I've also e-mailed Simon Thurley and await a reply. I don't have an e-mail adress for Sir Neil Cossons.

 

[Anonymous]

All EH e-mails follow the same pattern.

neil.cossons AT english-heritage.org.uk

omit spaces, substitute @ etc!

He's not there all the time, but his secretary sometimes answers, and he does pick up his e-mails...

 

[Anonymous]

Unearthing the true facts is a great idea.

I find it interesting that colour alone seems to be a key marketing tool and simply shows how much money can be made out of fashionable schemes.

Preserving the building is the most important factor in restoration. Unfortunately, that alone does not sell paint or anything else to the majority.

Jocelyn

 

[Anonymous]

I sent this e-mail to Sir Neil Cossons at English Heritage:

Dear Sir Neil,
I am interested in the association between English Heritage and Little Greene Paints.
It seems, at first reading, strange that EH appears to be promoting a range of alkyd and acrylic based paints, giving the impression that these are in some way 'authentic' and suitable for use in old buildings.
Is EH endorsing such paint in historic buildings under its care?
An association with one or more of the very few paint manufactures that use traditional binders as well as pigments would seem more appropriate.
Yours etc

Sir Neil replied thus:

The Little Green Paint Company has been producing paint since 1773. Its range includes:
Traditional oil-based paint
Flat oil paint
Oil-bound distemper
Limewash, and
Acrylic media

Four of the five types are traditional and are commonly used for decorated surfaces in conservation and restoration work. The other is used where environmental and other factors precludes the use of the more traditional finishes. The manufacturer does not make lead-based paint.

The inference towards ‘authenticity’ in the manufacturer’s advertising relates to provenanced historic colours and follows precedents used by other companies in their heritage paint ranges eg Dulux, Crown and Farrow and Ball.

English Heritage uses paints for its own properties’ protection and decoration that are appropriate to the buildings’ particular circumstances and our conservation principles. We employ both linseed oil and alkyd oil based paints; all forms of distemper, limewash and whitewash; and acrylic paints where necessary. We do not prevent our contractors from employing any brand or make of paint, providing it meets with our strenuous specification requirements for the job in hand. In several cases, eg Bolsover and Danson House, we have even made up our own paints from scratch – ie they were not supplied by and particular manufacturer.

We are acquainted with and associate with the paint manufacturers that use traditional binders and will continue to do so. Our technical advice to third parties wishing to use paints remain independent of our trading association with the Little Green

Sir Neil Cossons

Well, it was good of him to reply so swiftly but his reply somewhat misses the point I was trying to make and certainly doesn’t square with my conversation with the technical adviser at Little Greene who insisted that he would not recommend their paints for historically sensitive sites and that none of their paints were traditionally made except for the limewash and distemper which weren’t on sale yet. Ho hum.

 

[Anonymous]

Great that you have got this far - may I suggest another e-mail to Sir Neil, copied in to SPAB???

Hey. if we don't try we don't achieve...

 

[Anonymous]

I've now had a reply from John Fidler, the man responsible for briefing Sir Neil. I can just about forgive him for missing the 'e' of Little Greene, though he ought to know better. There's quite a lot more that I'm not so forgiving about. Any comments before I reply?

Dear Mr Biffen (yeah, he got that wrong too)

Thank you for your recent e-mail with further queries for English Heritage. I have been asked to respond on several grounds:

§ I am responsible for English Heritage technical policies and for the forthcoming Conservation Principles that guide our work

§ I am an advocate and supporter of our commercial paint deal with the Little Green Paint Company

§ My Department assisted ICI-Dulux in assembling its heritage paint range

§ I fully briefed my Chairman and provided the draft letter sent to you

It is true that we are associating ourselves with a paint manufacture in a way that gives the impression to the lay public that the paints sold with the EH logo are in some way suitable for use in historic buildings. But not necessarily for all historic buildings. There is also a market for many other older but not historic buildings in the existing built environment.

There is no discrepancy between my Chairman’s statement and that of Mr Drummond. As you infer, there have been many paint types used originally and in repairs and redecorations subsequently over the centuries including linseed oil based and other systems. Our commercial partner offers some but not all of these and others are in development.

Our technical advice to the public and to local planning authorities is independent and separate from our commercial partnerships. If questioned, our front line casework staff would provide appropriate guidance based on local circumstances, and this is to be backed up shortly by published guidance in hard copy and on our website: ranging from the appropriate use of lead-based linseed oil paint, to the use of alkyd oil, acrylic, silicate-based and other paints – for each has its place in technical and aesthetic terms, dependent upon circumstances.

When asked for advice on manufacturers and suppliers of paint, naturally again we provide information on all those companies, including the Little Green Paint Co, that provide those materials.

It is not always appropriate or suitable for listed historic buldings to be coated in the paints that were available when they were built. Most local planning authorities do not require listed building consent for the use of decorative paints on the interiors of Grade II statutorily listed buildings. Thus the most common form of paint type used nowadays is water-borne acrylic paint as it is odour free, fast drying, cheap and fulfills sustainability criteria as few VOCs/solvents are used in its manufacture and application. Our “offer” then, through the Little Green Paint Co., is to provide another commercially available but authenticated heritage colour range (like those of Dulux, Crown and Farrow & Ball) for this uncontrolled and risk free market.

You correctly state that the Little Green Paint Company does not make any claims about the “traditional” nature or otherwise of its paints. My Chairman used the term because oil-bound distempers, limewashes, flat oil paint etc are traditional vehicles.

Does this help?

John Fidler RIBA

Conservation Director
English Heritage
23, Savile Row
London W1S 2ET
Tel: 0207 973 3025