Energy efficiency in historic homes

[Lime]

Er, right, so now you seem to be saying it is a solved problem?

As I have said, DC technology has been around since Edison. The only real modern improvements are in semiconductor invertors and some control gear.
The problem, as you put it, only really comes about when that high voltage wire travels through hostile country.
A bit like my son sticking his bedside lamp onto his dart board so that he and his mates can see to play darts.
Everything is fine as long as they all play the game properly, i.e. hit the board and not the flex or lamp.
Do we really believe that the countries through which this HVDC grid would pass will play the game properly?
It won't take many of the population to bring the project to it's knees.
That is real the problem IMO.

What we are talking about is not a long piece of cable like that on my son's bedside light.
It is a complicated system that we will be reliant upon for our power costing billions of pounds.
Personally I think the risks are too great to make it worthwhile.

 

[biffvernon]

Bit like a gas pipeline from Russia then?
Or an oil pipeline from Kazackstan?

 

[Penners]

my "I tend to agree" was not in answer to Penners' self-deprecating aside about him debating above his weight.

Ah, FF, very kind - but how little you know me.

 

[Penners]

Bit like a gas pipeline from Russia then?
Or an oil pipeline from Kazackstan?

Actually, yes. Very like those. The more of our energy that we have to import, the more vulnerable we become to political blackmail and terrorism.

But please don't ask me what the alternative is.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, I suppose we could invest in seeking ways to generate our own electricity (I'm not against wind turbines per se, just not in special places) and maybe look too at wavepower.

We could try to use less of both, on an individual level (thank you Ken McCloud last night for showing what turning off a few uneccessary lights can save...) and try to think of alternatives.

Boreholes using water allied to heat pumps for heating for example.

 

[Penners]

Would the problem with localised electricity generation be a less reliable supply, hence more power cuts?

The great benefit of the National Grid has surely been the fact that power from anywhere can be switched anywhere. So if the nearest power station to you needs to have a 3000-mile service, it can shut down for a couple of days without your losing your supply.

If you're on a little, independent, local circuit, the slightest glitch will rob you of power.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, we are on the National Grid and I can't say it's without problems. However - I think many smaller local schemes may be the way to go. In rural areas, I see small turbines springing up all over next to buildings. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

 

[biffvernon]

(thank you Ken McCloud last night for showing what turning off a few uneccessary lights can save...)

I happened to be running the National Grid real time operational data graph at http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Realtime/Demand/Demand60.htm last night. There was a big spike in demand, about 2 giga Watts, at 9 0'clock, presumably when a lot of folk left what they had been watching previously and went to make a cuppa when Kevin came on. There was no discernable drop when Kevin asked us to turn the lights off. We did turn the one light off that we were using but as it was only 15 watts it didn't show up on the graph.

 

[Nemesis]

It was turning off the few in Lunnon which were needlessly lit up I thought A Good Thing.

So many office buildings seem to have lighting on 24/7. If only this could be multiplied...

We only had the TV on and a small lamp too, although the fridge and freezer were running I admit.

 

[Flyfisher]

I happened to be running the National Grid real time operational data graph at http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Realtime/Demand/Demand60.htm last night. There was a big spike in demand, about 2 giga Watts, at 9 0'clock,

I was in the workshop at around that time - I hope it wasn't my fault by repairing the mower with my new welder :wink:

 

[Penners]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAlyEMQxTN0

Flyfisher - I thought I recognised you in this movie earlier. That's quite a welder you've got there.

 

[Nemesis]

I'm not going to click on that link, just in case we are back to double entendres.

 

[Flyfisher]

Quite safe to click, Nem.
Well, I can't quite generate quite that sort of arc but I've just done a couple of hours mowing and my scrappy looking welds seems to have held together. So it looks like I can postpone buying a new mower for yet another year.

 

[biffvernon]

A little digression whilst on the energy stuff, tonight's price for the benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude on the New York Mercentile Exchange (WTI on NYMEX for us anoraks) was $123.53 - that's an increase of almost 101% on May the 7th, 2007.

Oil price has doubled in a year.

 

[Jon Maine]

Yes they have been opening up old wells where yeilds had previously been written off and gone from being poor to riding around in new trucks.

 

[Flyfisher]

. . . . and I remember reading all the doom and gloom a couple of years ago about how bad it would be if oil hit $50 :shock:

Because the price has risen relatively quickly I suspect there are still some difficult knock-on effects still to come into (out of?) the system.
Let's face it, pretty much everything we consume travels by oil in some form or another.

 

[Penners]

I've just done a couple of hours mowing and my scrappy looking welds seems to have held together. So it looks like I can postpone buying a new mower for yet another year.

That's all well and good for you, but what about poor old Dobbin?

 

[Penners]

pretty much everything we consume travels by oil in some form or another.

Or is made of oil.

 

[Jon Maine]

Of course bringing older housing stock back into circulation is also far more energy efficient than building new a point many councils and developers miss. They think their easily quantifiable new boxes called rabbit hutch houses are better but certainly will require more maintenance or even demolition far more quickly so a high energy cost to boot.

Does this mean when oil runs out no more upvc windows!! maybe every cloud has a silver lining.

 

[Flyfisher]

Well Penners, at the rate fuel prices are going up I might be able to offer Dobbin a new home. I we had some decent fences I'd get a load of sheep and convert the grass into lamb. Long term, the capital cost of fencing (and sheep) must be cheaper than mowing - not to mention the annual mower repairs.

And you're right, of course, about how much stuff today is made of oil derivatives - including uPVC windows