Electrical Damp Proofing - Real or Snake Oil?

[JCIT]

Good afternoon,

Just been ushered by my wife into the cupboard under the stairs to examine a brown electrical box.

"Must be the door ringer."

"That's wireless and battery-powered."

Get specs and torch... Turns out that the unit is the power box for an electrical damp proofing system.

If I use Google then there are about 5,000 hits for "electrical damp proofing titanium". None of them look like independent reviews of the technology.

• The house has a dry cellar with a raised floor (hard core, membrane and concrete skim).
  Next door's cellar is damp.
  I have an interior well about 5m from the cellar.
  The hard core under the membrane looks damp (one corner was exposed)
  There is no obvious damp in the walls: I've had the walls repointed with lime mortar.

Key question(s):

• - Is electro damp proofing real?
  - Can I switch off the unit?
  - How can I satisfy myself that the unit is still functioning? (circuit test?)

Thanks.

Regards
JC

 

[worms]

Ooh! A real live trial would be good! Switch it off and report back in a year's time on whether the cellar has filled with water or the house has fallen down!

As you may have guessed, I am in the snake-oil camp!

 

[JCIT]

More than happy to do that...

Do you think I could get an English Heritage grant for the trial?... Some of the web sites point to the science for this going back to the early 1800s - roughly aligned to the age of the property.

Regards
JC

 

[Feltwell]

More than happy to do that...

Do you think I could get an English Heritage grant for the trial?... Some of the web sites point to the science for this going back to the early 1800s - roughly aligned to the age of the property.

Regards
JC

Ahh! Maybe it's an original early 1800's box of electrical tricks then. Definitely worth preserving..... :wink:

 

[MdB]

You lot really are a lot of sceptics. I have made water move up hill using just electricity. It can be done and I have video to prove it. No pumps or anything mechanical, just a couple of probes and a voltage source.

The small print..
Ok, the height gain was small (about 2mm), the voltage required was large (1000V+), the water needed to be very pure and you wouldn't be able use it for anything useful but you can push water around with electricity.

However, I know of no science by which titanium wires and low voltages would work. If you do switch off, remember that this winter has been very very dry so if you do find signs of damp next year it might not have anything to do with the switch off.

 

[JCIT]

"Snake oil. Snake oil," seems to be general consensus. However, I would refer to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-osmosis for a description of the principles (and confirmation of the "period" science basis). I have found the Agony Uncle submissions (x2), which are sceptical and some pointers to the BRE's belief that the case is not proven...

On the other hand, I don't have a damp problem.........

 

[Lime]

On the other hand, I don't have a damp problem.........

wherever I have seen these fitted, the property has not been damp.
Perhaps the evidence is staring us in the face.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Snake-oil

 

[Flyfisher]

Could it be some sort of heating strip embedded withing the walls?

Such things are sometimes used today in outdoor "street furniture" cabinets to keep things like telephone wiring dry and free from condensation. It's also used to prevent water pipes freezing.

But if it dates back to the early days of electricity then it could just as easily be a "new miracle cure" pedalled by the cowboys of the time. :wink:

 

[philpjuk100]

Electric damp proofing works by osmosis,a titainium wire is run around the lower walls being secured in holes in the brickwork,it is supplied with low voltage from a tranformer.This prevents the damp rising up the wall,but we do not belive in rising damp,do we?

 

[Matt Green]

Electric damp proofing works by osmosis,

It works on the principal of electro-osmosis (the difference is huge). Apply a current across a porous material and motion is induced in liquids within it: the liquid is water, the direction of intended motion is downward. That's the theory.

Does it work? I refer you to this: "Replastering Notes: don't forget that replastering is essential if dampness has affected your plaster because of the 'salts' that come with the water: you have two options - either replaster to our specification using sand and cement, with Renderpruf salt inhibitor/waterproofer in the water or look at the Wall Membrane option. " from here: http://www.dampness-info.co.uk/electro dpc.htm

....but we do not belive in rising damp,do we?

Water rises in porous materials by capillary action- that's physics. If your definition of rising damp = capillary action (like the PCA/BWPDA) then there's no argument. Is rising damp caused by water rising in a wall from the soil with no other causative situation that could be addressed? Not often. Not often at all.

 

[CliffordPope]

But osmosis has nothing to do with electricity.

Osmosis is the tendency of molecules of a solvent to pass through a semipermeable membrane from a less concentrated solution into a more concentrated.

Where's the membrane? Where's the solvent? Where's the solute?

 

[MatthewC]

Does it work? I refer you to this: "Replastering Notes: don't forget that replastering is essential if dampness has affected your plaster because of the 'salts' that come with the water: you have two options - either replaster to our specification using sand and cement, with Renderpruf salt inhibitor/waterproofer in the water or look at the Wall Membrane option. " from here: http://www.dampness-info.co.uk/electro dpc.htm

But given that the reference website does not seem to mention lime and breathability at all, do we want to accept that they know what they are talking about? They sound just a little bit biased - despite the name "dampness info", they are selling things!

If this does work, then there is a further question as to whether it should be used on old buildings?

 

[Matt Green]

But given that the reference website does not seem to mention lime and breathability at all, do we want to accept that they know what they are talking about? They sound just a little bit biased - despite the name "dampness info", they are selling things!

If this does work, then there is a further question as to whether it should be used on old buildings?

Indeed. It's almost as if I'm presenting information and letting you make up your own mind. Isn't it?

 

[Feltwell]

Well, I'm convinced now. It was these before and after pictures that did it - it's all the proof you'll ever need I reckon. :roll:



And as if by magic......

 

[Lime]

This is an interesting pdf.
Perhaps the most scientific report on the subject I have seen so far.

http://filesdown.esecure.co.uk/Lectros/Drying_Brick_Masonry_by_Electro-Osmosis.pdf_01122008-1111-04.pdf

 

[Zebra]

I don't know, but I thought with reference to my own house, that if in a year's time I still have damp, having addressed all the other causes, then I might give one of these a go, because I can fit it myself carefully in the mortar course, and it's reversible simply by repointing the holes with lime mortar if I want to take it out, unlike the chemical injection approach. Similar to what Lime says above, those people I've encountered who have this fitted say that they don't have a damp problem. Correlation is not the same as causation and all that, but you can buy the kit on ebay for £250, and it seems to me there are worse things you could do to your house.

 

[worms]

but you can buy the kit on ebay for £250, and it seems to me there are worse things you could do to your house.

For only £200 (plus VAT), I'll come and paint your gateposts with treacle to keep the elephants from roosting on them at night!

 

[Zebra]

Oh would you?! That would be marvellous. Treacle is the thing is it? Yes OK then, if in a year's time, I still have elephants roosting on the gateposts, having addressed all the other possible causes, then you're on!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

If I recall, Penners' grandchildren are also very good at keeping crocodiles away.

Edit: Phew, got the apo'strophe in there before you-know-who spotted it was missing...