Earth-sheltered building, Sheffield

[Jane Smith]

Bums. Looks like the BTCV only helps out charities and organisations, not real people like us. Never mind. Thanks anyway, Penners, old bean.

 

[Nemesis]

BTCV work on community projects, not private ones, no matter how worthy.

I don't know if there is a building version of wwoofers:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/essex/content/articles/2006/08/10/wwoofing_darell_feature.shtml

http://www.wwoof.org/wwoof_uk/

 

[Penners]

Penners, are you involved with the BTCV in any way?

No, Jane. As I said, the suggestion was made in complete ignorance. A condition with which I am unusually familiar (as Nemesis's post makes clear). Sorry it's a dead-end.

 

[Jane Smith]

We can't be described as "worthy", not in any way, despite Nemesis's tactful post. But it's always worth making the suggestion, though, Penners. You never know. Thanks anyway.

 

[biffvernon]

Ice houses are (were) earth sheltered building. They were built before the invention of Ordinary Portland Cement.

 

[Nemesis]

Bit cold and damp though...

Talking of refrigeration:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6283677.stm

 

[NT]

NT, some good ideas but you're ignoring the fact that we're in the Peak Park and we won't get planning permission for your ideas.

They'd be a few inches deep and only cost a few hundred in materials. If desired they can leave the wall looking the same as it does now, so they'd not be noticeable from a distance.

I shan't debate the ins and outs of needing planning, but a building can be built without them.

It's going to be hard enough to get planning permission for the below-ground stuff.

You realise that solar that doesnt noticeably change the appearance of the building may be seen as an oportunity to advance the solar art by the planners.

If we add a four-foot wing to the sides we'll block access to both the courtyard and the planned atrium.

Right. You can put a collector on any south facing wall, it doesnt have to be part of the building. Also you've got buildings in close proximity with walls. Then theres a shed without pp, and temporary ie removable solar structures, garden or yard wall etc.

Also, that south-facing end wall is only above ground on the top story, as there's a hill in the way of the bottom story.

There are options... Its hard to know what you can do without seeing the site or knowing more about what you plan etc, so keep objecting and I may try a few more thoughts if you like.


NT

 

[NT]

Hi Jane

Our tumble dryer is a standard electric one. Can you post a link to a supplier of solar-heated tumble driers? Can't say I've ever heard of them, but I'm willing to look. How much do they cost? How do they work? How long's the payback? I'm looking forward to finding these things out.

I've never heard of anyone selling them, it would be a case of adapting yours, or getting another and adapting it before fitting it.

The principles are simple enough.

1. make the motor run without the heating coils. This is elementary for any machine that will run cold.

2. Run a 2 channel air duct from the TD to the outdoor panel.

3. The panel is a simple low cost warm air panel, and at the cheap end could be made out of anything from cheap polythene sheet to nice looking glass. Its run DG in winter and SG in summer, and a reflector may be added for higher temps in winter.

The system runs closed loop, ie the air recirculates to save energy.

Water vapour condenses on the coldest part of the system and drains out, this can be a metal plate near the solar panel.

Your dryer electric heating is still there, so you can use it after dark on electricity if you want.

The result is significantly more electricity available for other uses at minimal cost. Its far cheaper than adding more generating capacity.


Normally when someone goes offgrid, energy efficiency is addressed first, fairly agggressively, because electricity generating capacity is pricey. Part of that process is shifting all energy uses to the cheapest possible source. So TD would be shifted from electric to solar power etc etc. Have you been through this energy efficiency process? Or did you do it but the TD come later and miss it?


NT

 

[Jane Smith]

NT, when we first moved in we stripped our energy use down to the lowest it would go. We even had wood-burning stoves as our only form of heating and cooking. We used to dry our washing on racks in front of it. However, after only a few months of relying on those stoves we were sick of them: they made the whole house dirty as they spewed out ash when ever we opened the fire door; they gobbled up wood faster than we could pile it in; they didn't heat anything like the area they were meant to, and so we were perpetually cold; and they went out overnight so each morning we woke to ice on the inside of the windows, which was bad enough for us but our son was just a year old at the time, and was miserable.

After three years we had renovated the four rooms we live in now, and as part of that renovation we put in an oil-fired Aga and central heating. Just doing that freed up at least an hour and a half per day for me, as I was no longer having to see to the stoves and clean up the ash all the time. It was heavenly.

When we had a second child our kitchen became permanently wreathed in washing. I only used the machine when the generator was running, so as not to trigger it on; eventually, fed up with spending so much time rearranging wet washing to try to get everything dry before it mouldered, we got a tumble dryer which again, we only used when the generator was running. And again, this freed up a huge amount of my time.

We do a lot to live in a sustainable, responsible way. But we also have to have enough time to do everything, and often it's a choice between the most energy-efficient, planet-kind way and the most time-efficient, personal-life-enhancing way. I had a straight choice between continuing with the wood stoves and rack drying, and having time to work, as I work from home. For us, it's important to preserve the outstanding natural beauty of where we live and not clutter it with all the untidy-looking, home-made kit that often surrounds off-grid living, while also introducing as many ways to tread lightly on this landscape that we treasure. There are other ways which we consider to be better. Some things work for us but not for others. It's a matter of balance.

 

[NT]

Jane I think what you say about time and human energy is a central point so often overlooked in all this. AIUI human energy is a good deal more valuable than electrical energy, but it seems there are many who fail to value their time. When doing or talking about any alt energy system for me it has to be human energy efficient, ie fully automatic, or its a valuable resource sink.

I forget what roofcovering(s) you have, but if its slate, your proposed new building or existing outbuilding could be covered with glass slates with a slate coloured surface under them. Thus would provide a very large area of solar capture, and it does look like slate from the ground. I dont know if thats an option you've considered. Thing with solar nrg is there are just so many options.


NT

 

[Penners]

We do a lot to live in a sustainable, responsible way.

A hell of a lot more than 99.9% of the population, I venture to suggest.

 

[NT]

PS another energy efficient option is to convert a TD to dehumidifier operation. Instead of running at high temp and high RH, running at low RH reduces vapour pressure and permits faster evaporation, so for the same performance one can run the air cycle cooler.

NT

 

[Nemesis]

Sorry not much time other than to say I agree with Jane - we have to be realistic about what we can do, recognising that we can all do something is a useful first step.

It's those who don't even see the global problem (hello Mr Bush) who are the ones to worry about.

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks for that insight Jane, it's very refreshing to hear real experiences from people actually living such things rather than just describing theoretical possibilities for reducing our 'carbon footprint' while ignoring the impact on our lives.

Your observations about the practicality of wood burning stoves were interesting. Everyone I know seems to use them only for supplementary heating; perhaps you have explained the reason why. I wonder if you ever tried to burn coal instead of wood? (or perhaps your stoves were not suitable?).

My experiences of open fires is that coal is far more practical than wood, although we sometimes burn wood later in the evening when the coal fire has done its job of heating things up and we've gradually peeled off our our various layers of clothing and are down to our long-johns!

 

[Moo]

re Drying washing -
I don't know how high your ceilings are, but in our beloved house-before-last we inherited a venerable solid-fuel Aga and one of those pulley-operated drying racks to one side of it. A load of washing would be bone dry long before the machine had finished dealing with the next load.

 

[Nemesis]

I agree - we had one in a previous house, and despite very small amount of heating it worked wonderfully well.

 

[Penners]

one of those pulley-operated drying racks

Aah - a good old Lazy Susan (as my gran used to call it).

 

[Moo]

The Aga was the only source of heating in the kitchen (which was pretty huge). And it was very useful for drying logs (remove the shelf dividing the two left-hand ovens).

 

[Penners]

Interesting concept. Use heat to dry logs to produce heat! Isn't the snake eating its tail?

 

[Moo]

No, that's the beauty of it. The (very low) heat was there anyway, all the time.