Dry rot support group

[Michelle73]

Hello, I think i'm a victim of Dry rot and am starting to feel a little better after reading some older posts on here. Thank you!
I live in the Scottish Borders, in a mid-terrace house c 1700 with a more recent felt, flat roof extention to the rear c 1960-ish.
In the hall way running through the middle of the house is a nasty old glass roof light which leaks. Its been on our 'to do' list with a hundred other jobs but has finally jumped to the top of the queue as I think its the cause of the Dry Rot.
The 1st thing I noticed a couple of months ago was a fine red dust on the carpet in the living room beneath the flat roof. Thought it may have been plaster settling from behind radiator and cleaned it up. Noticed it again at the weekend, thought 'thats odd' and googled away until I found stuff about Rot. Did a bit more investigating ie, got the other half up the ladders and had him strip out lots of toungue and groove (ceiling & walls) and there we found fluffly white cobwebby stuff. No nasty smells though.
Now we know its there and probably whats causing it do we just replace the leaky sky light and with wire brush, scrub the walls and wood with Bleach? Or have I become a little too laid back in reading your advice? I really don't like the thought of lots of chemical sprays, have a toddler running about the place.
Also, I'm charging up the battery on my camera so I can take a photo of the ceililng joist which has some very scary big holes in it.
Don't know if this is caused by the rot or maybe an older infestation of something but it really looks like a beast has bitten chunks out of it at some point.

I think I'm fluctuating somewhere between panic and bankruptcy!

Thank you
Michelle

 

[Michelle73]

looking up at the damaged roof joist just beneath the roof light - holes are to the left, right and in the middle.
Any idea what may have caused these?

 

[christianb]

Hi Michelle,

Alas, I'm no expert on timber infestations, rot and such. The "dusting" sounds like woodworm to me - or something similar. But, like I say, it's not something I know that much about. I have heard, though, that woodworm only really get going on timber over 40 years old.

It might be worth your while speaking to an honest and trusted specialist company. I know of one down here in Cornwall who I'd recommend to anyone, but that's not much good to you where you are. Most do free appraisals and it might, at least, help you see the wood for the trees. No pun intended.

Good luck.

C.

 

[Matt Green]

There doesn't look like there's a lot of dry rot (a brown rot- it leaves wood brown ) around the skylight from your picture it seems a more white rot-ish (leaves wood a white colour, makes it look bleached and fibrous rather than brown and cracked).

Lots of red dust is a pretty good sign though...I wonder what's behind that t&g paneling? Spores mean fruiting bodies (sporophores) and that means i) you should have found some and ii) the fungus isn't very happy so is trying to find a new place for a spore to germinate rather than carry on growing where it is.

Now we know its there and probably whats causing it do we just replace the leaky sky light and with wire brush, scrub the walls and wood with Bleach?

Replace or repair the skylight, make sure the whole thing is watertight then leave the surrounding timberwork exposed for a while and watch what happens. If the dust comes back, you haven't found the fungus. If the panneling starts to shrink, you've fixed the problem and now know where you have to repair the damage.

Other than a bit of damage to the joists, there doesn't seem to be much that's serious.


Matt

 

[Matt Green]

I have heard, though, that woodworm only really get going on timber over 40 years old.

Think that through for a moment. There'd be piles of dust where tudor timbers should be.

Age doesn't have anything to do with it: the quality of the timber is the important part. Without chemical modificationn (by fungi for example) wood boring insects only eat the sapwood (outer) parst of the tree. Really old timber is less likley to get insect activity in it because the quality fo timber was a lot higher then than it is now. by quality I mean higher heartwood:sapwood ratio than modern fast grown softwood.

40-50 years ago though the quality of softwood used in building construction was pretty poor (massive post-war timber shortage), so in that respect it's more likely to be attacked; but that situation arose due to a specific set of circumstances that brought a lot more sapwood timber into homes than ever and before widespread used of chemical pre-treatment.

Bottom line: reuse as much decent timber as you cana nd ignore worm and rot scare stories, they only add to the problem.

 

[MdB]

Matt is an expert in this. You are unlikely to get a better opinion.

 

[Penners]

Michelle - just to echo what MdB has said, you're fortunate to have Matt's expert view on this problem. He's a professional.

 

[Michelle73]

Thank you to all and especially Matt, don't suppose I can tempt you up to The Borders for a large batch of Chocolate brownies and some cash?!!
I've a joiner coming to inspect tomorrow and a 'specialist' firm on Friday. Looking forward to sounding like I know what I'm talking about. Since the other half is working away i'm on my tod with this and round here we're rife with tradesmen who like to shake their heads and make very expensive tutting noises!
Have taken a pic of the brick and edge of the kitchen window frame. Its hard to see but there are cubed cracks in the wooden frame as there were in the t&g and the bricks have this white candy floss/web like stuff on them. Please tell me its not spider webs or I will feel Very Very silly

 

[Michelle73]

.

 

[Matt Green]

Ah, now that certainly loooks like dry rot. You know where the water is coming from, so replacing the skylight should be the first priority. Stop the water, kill the fungus etc etc. Don't worry about treating the visible fungus, that will die of it's own accord, drying the walls with cold air blowers will accelerate that and removing it with a wire brush will stop contractors muttering andd jittering. The windows should be carefully removed with a surgical crowbar for repairs if needed and to isolate them from the walls with a DPM or similar. Same for any other timber near the skylight and the levelling timbers embedded in the wall need to be replaced with masonry (they can't be realistically saved or isolated well).

Skylight first though. No real need for panic, it's just forced you to act a bit sooned than you reckoned on.


Matt
-who will do many, many things for chocolate brownies, but Scotland is a long way away. Alas.

 

[Flyfisher]

and round here we're rife with tradesmen who like to shake their heads and make very expensive tutting noises!

Sadly, I don't think such people are confined to your part of the country, they're ubiquitous.

Still, you've come up trumps with Matt so good luck with getting the skylight fixed.

 

[Michelle73]

Hi Matt, I had a chap round yesterday who is going to prepare a quote for me. He said that he would want to remove the plaster skim from the opposite side of the brick wall, the one which I've posted a photo of. Does this sound reasonable or is it overkill?
The specialist chappy was quite impressed by how much I knew of the rot and its cause so quickly stopped tutting and shaking his head but am thinking maybe he is going a wee bit far and the plaster could be left alone...l hope :?:

 

[Matt Green]

Hi Matt, I had a chap round yesterday who is going to prepare a quote for me. He said that he would want to remove the plaster skim from the opposite side of the brick wall, the one which I've posted a photo of. Does this sound reasonable or is it overkill?
The specialist chappy was quite impressed by how much I knew of the rot and its cause so quickly stopped tutting and shaking his head but am thinking maybe he is going a wee bit far and the plaster could be left alone...l hope :?:

That's a curious thing to do. Why only the skim? What's he looking for? And if he finds dry rot strands, then what? I'm cautious because he's seen the place and I haven't but if he's looking for more decayed timber, then that will still be covered by the scratch coat plaster...right? (chime in other folks if i'm missing something here). If he finds strands under the skim he'll want to remove the scratch coat too to expose the brickwork and remove any affected timber he finds, which isn't a bad plan, but if he does find any strands there could still be embedded timbers being decayed- because the fungus is growing through the wall so it will reach the embedded timbers before the skim. I don't understand what end point he's looking to reach other than giving you many small bills rather than one big one, obviously, but that's cynical and he's seen the place and not all remedial folks are bad guys.

Removing the skim will speed up drying a bit I suppose, but then why not take the whole lot off and dry the wall even more quickly?

I think spending money on skim removal is money that could be spent actually addressing the source of water and the decay. Once the whole area has dried out any embedded timbers that shrink will cause the plaster to crack and you can repair the damage then, if it occurs.

The sad fact is that just by posting here you've potentially dodged a dodgy quote, which is a shame because none of this to too difficult as long as everyone stays calm and thinks rationally.


Matt.

 

[Michelle73]

Sorry Matt, don't know where I got the skim part from. This chap intends to take back all the plaster to the brickwork.
I guess from what you've said that this is probably necessary as I can see that the rot has gone into the wall through cracks and mortar (
Having some very bad dreams about this stuff. Trying to stay calm but I just want to rip everything out and sterilise my house right now. Its hard sitting about waiting for quotes to come in.
Silly question but can you tell me why the strands etc should be removed with a wire brush? I know theres probably a very simple reason that I should have been able to figure out but just wondering if it wouldn't be simpler to vaccum the wall and ceiling with the Dyson?

Thank you :?

 

[Moo]

wondering if it wouldn't be simpler to vaccum the wall and ceiling with the Dyson?

I'd like to know the answer to that one, too. Does it depend on the suction power of the machine, or could one do it with any old vacuum cleaner?

 

[JoceAndChris]

Don't know about dry rot strands, but I do know about the difference between using a stiff wire brush and my powerful vacuum on the efflorescence on stone, pamments and brick downstairs. Whereas the vacuum will just remove the dust, the surface layer, the wire brush will actually take off the efflorescence until the stone is no longer white; it goes a little deeper than just the surface and it's just so much more effective. I used to panic that I'll end up with no stone left, but now I think -oh well, this will have to do until we can take some drastic anti damp action and I'm sure the house will be fine until then.

Michelle, it'll be OK, go shopping, divert yourself! These houses were built to last, it's amazing what they withstand.

 

[Matt Green]

Sorry Matt, don't know where I got the skim part from. This chap intends to take back all the plaster to the brickwork.
I guess from what you've said that this is probably necessary as I can see that the rot has gone into the wall through cracks and mortar (

At this point my advice is going to get a bit sketchy. there are clearly timbers within teh wall, some of which will have been attacked by fungus and are supporting masonry. Whilst I'm not a great fan of plaster stripping 'to find the extent of the decay', I don't really want the slow compression and cracking of your wall on my conscience without having seen the wall in question. If the timbers go all the way through the wall's thickness, then expose one side and replace. If the plaster is modern, then there's no massive loss of historic fabric. Dry the masonry whilst its exposed. Essentially: make the best of it.

If the area can get wet then expect decay, if not then don't expect it. Equally if there no timber, there the fungus wont do anything. Wholesale stripping of plaster is never a great idea but with embedded wall timbers and cracked mortar, it may be that removing the timbers and repairing teh masonry are good fro the wall in the long run.

Having some very bad dreams about this stuff. Trying to stay calm but I just want to rip everything out and sterilise my house right now. Its hard sitting about waiting for quotes to come in.
Silly question but can you tell me why the strands etc should be removed with a wire brush? I know theres probably a very simple reason that I should have been able to figure out but just wondering if it wouldn't be simpler to vaccum the wall and ceiling with the Dyson?

Thank you :?

Keep calm and carry on. Remember you're British. Seriously, no need to panic as Joce wrote- take your mind off it building suffer a lot of punishment. As for the dyson- the strands are usually attached pretty firmly to the masonry.

Cue: National Anthem.

 

[Michelle73]

go shopping, divert yourself!

Retail therapy, got it!! In fact it could be argued that I have saved so much money by taking advice from you good folks that I ought to show my thanks by redirecting funds into the high street thus aiding the great British economic recovery...someone direct me towards Hobbs please...!!

 

[JoceAndChris]

That's the spirit! And Hobbs is divinely vintage this season.

I'm sure it's a good idea to have lots and lots of clothes and coats and hats everywhere, and to make sure they all get a wearing and an airing as you go out and about. Just think of the ambient moisture in the house you absorb by doing that.

Feminine logic; I'm an expert. :wink:

 

[Moo]

Er. You'll have to excuse this question (I'm a Naarch girl, remember). But could you explain, in very simple terms, what Hobbs is?