Dream house

[Dollyp]

Hello
I am in the process of buying my dream retirement home,a grade 2 listed detached house - fell in love from the moment I saw it on the internet and offered straight away- estate agent said I would have to see it before putting offer to seller- made 4 hour trip and put offer to seller on the spot which they accepted
It needs lots of tlc and will probably be my life’s work - that’s the good bit….
Seller has had a survey carried out .. issues with bats in roof… and holes in roof membrane…needs rewire …gable plate needs replacing …aga back boiler disconnected.. beams have old woodworm holes ….radiators need sorting…boiler probably needs replacing….wood burner has no pipe work to inglenook …rotted window sill’s …this is some of the issues
Report states that some repairs have been made before the house was listed in the 1980’s and would not be accepted today
I realise that I am a bit out of my depth and after making loads phone calls to various tradespeople….i have sorted an electrician and a carpenter…my large wall unit and 4poster bed are to tall and won’t fit under the beams…….sadly .no one else returned my calls
I have also tried to contact the local council planning office for advice…but they are extremely swamped and short staffed
SO I WOULD ASK FOR ANY ADVICE
IS THERE A REGISTER OF TRADES WHO HAVE SPECIALISED KNOWLEDGE OF WORKING ON LISTED PROPERTY
ANY BAT ORGANISATION….( MAN OR WOMAN ) !! THAT CAN ADVISE NEXT STEPS
LOOKING ON THE INTERNET I HAVE READ SO MUCH BUT ITS CONFUSING
IF ANYONE CAN PASS ON TRIED AND TESTED IDEAS
I WOULD BE SO HAPPY
My husbands d I y skills run to demolition and swearing… lifting and shifting…..I’m no expert but will give things ago AS LONG AS I HAVE CUPPA AND ASHTRAY …(except heights ..gas …electric )
looking forward to your replies
Thank you

 

[Cubist]

Hi There and Welcome,

Sadly you've have posted this discussion in the wrong sub-forum and it would be better placed in the PP Discussion Forum where it will attract greater interest and comment - perhaps the site administrators would be kind enough to transfer the topic for you?

Perhaps you would clarify; is it you or the house that is situated in Leominster?

You do not describe the house but from the clues provided is it safe to assume its a timber frame cottage/house with a tiled roof? On the basis of the clues provided above I would suggest it's in need of something more than a little TLC and you may want to revise that opinion fairly quickly. I don't want to alarm you but, on the basis of your observations thus far: -

• Bats
  • Are protected by law and you may take no action to harm or evict them without full consultation and agreement from the appropriate authorities.
  • The Bat Conservation Trust can provide you with all essential guidance and details of support organisations.
  • You will find that these lodgers enjoy more rights than you do.
• English Heritage is a source of information concerning tradespeople in your area.
  • Its always wise to check the references of anyone claiming to be an accredited or approved organisation.
• Roof Membrane Holes
  • Could be a minor issue depending on the cause of the damage and its extent BUT if the bats are roosting in the attic space even simple repairs could be costly and may require approvals of any works.
  • Worst case would be the roof has to come off to allow installation of a new membrane - Circa £20k for a small roof.
• Gable Plate Replacement
  • This is a major project during which a significant part of the roof may have to be removed to allow installation of the new plate.
  • This would require full BA, CO involvement and planning permission - and engagement with the BAT people.
  • Costs may be in the range £20k minimum and worst case maximum in the order of £50k.
• Full House Re-Wire - Minimum £5k. Max circa £10k.
• Full Heating System - £20k

And this could be just the tip of the iceberg but nevertheless fairly typical for the usual neglected Money Pit - I hope you have deep pockets because they won't be for much longer.

Shame about the four poster, it might have been useful if equipped with its own curtains - bats flapping about the bedroom can be a trifle disturbing for some people.

But, don't let me put you off. Stewardship of one of these old buildings can be extremely rewarding, except in a financial sense, and they are wonderful places to live in. Maybe some of my fellows here will be less pessimistic.

Cheers for now,
Cubist

 

[haf]

Hi - I am in a very similar position and also just bought a grade 2 listed house in worse condition than yours. There is tons of detailed information available that has been extremely helpful in learning all teh ins and outs of what you can and cannot do along with what permissions you need and who can do it. I would add that its a long process and I am think 3 years minimum for me.
The best site so far has been https://historicengland.org.uk/ - it's a bit rubbish for finding what you need but everything is there including detailed guidance documents on anything you can think of.
I am glad it's not just me who is new to all this. Luckily I am pretty experienced in all aspects of DIY so can understand a lot of the ins and outs of what to do..
I have a couple of threads going in the main discussion forum and happy to share my learnings. It goes without saying that the folks on this forum are very helpful and knowledgeable so def a good place to be
Haf

 

[a twig]

Sorry - late to the party but now moved to the main discussion forum, Happy Christmas!

 

[Dollyp]

Hi - I am in a very similar position and also just bought a grade 2 listed house in worse condition than yours. There is tons of detailed information available that has been extremely helpful in learning all teh ins and outs of what you can and cannot do along with what permissions you need and who can do it. I would add that its a long process and I am think 3 years minimum for me.
The best site so far has been https://historicengland.org.uk/ - it's a bit rubbish for finding what you need but everything is there including detailed guidance documents on anything you can think of.
I am glad it's not just me who is new to all this. Luckily I am pretty experienced in all aspects of DIY so can understand a lot of the ins and outs of what to do..
I have a couple of threads going in the main discussion forum and happy to share my learnings. It goes without saying that the folks on this forum are very helpful and knowledgeable so def a good place to be
Haf

Afternoon Haf
So sorry for the delay in my reply I now have WiFi - on a mobile hub -works when wind blows in right direction
Thank you for your advice
I have now sold my house moved in to my temporary home while waiting for the DREAM HOME to come out of probate
I have had a wobble as specialist recommended by the surveyor has quoted me a STAGGERING £70.000 for sole plate repair on both gables
after telling me he had QUICK no EXTENSIVE LOOK from outside
He had said roof may cost another £70.000 when he looked up from the ground
Very shocked I can tell you as survey said watertight and only a few slates moved
That’s well over my entire budget even estate agents agree it’s overpriced - house top value completely renovated to top spec is only £100.000 over sale price
Have contacted another 2 timber frame specialists
1
Explained everything to him - he looked at house on internet and understands why I fell for it
He is going to charge me an hours fee to
Go to the house - check inside and out and give me his honest opinion of what is needed and write a report as he is semi retired
So I have an anxious wait
Trouble is I still love the house and at the moment my heart is ruling my head

How are your renovations going ?
I am also glad I’m not the only newbie on here x
Dolly p

 

[Dollyp]

Pictures of gable walls that need repair
Thinking of asking hubby to sell a kidney to help pay for repairs
I’m sure a bit of no more nails and some mdf would work ….did on changing rooms on t v years ago !
Dollyp

 

[Flyfisher]

If I've learned one thing from my 17 years experience of renovating a big old listed house in very poor condition, it's that they are far more robust than we generally think and there's usually no need to rush into massive works to 'fix' things. I've come to the conclusion that moving to a period property from a 'modern' house, even ones that may be 50-60 years old, can be quite a shock to many people to the extent that they immediately panic and rush to rebuild large parts at vast expense.

One example (from many I could relate). Our survey highlighted a failed joint in the timber frame roof plate at the point where a king roof trus joined the roof plate. I didn't really need a surveyor to point this out because the wall was already bowing outwards because the failed joint meant that the truss was no longer restraining the wall plate but merely resting on it and, if the wall continued to move outwards, the truss would at some stage 'fall off' the wall plate. His recommendation was to cut a hole in the affected bedroom floor and the downstairs suspended floor so that a suitable support could be placed underneath the roof truss and provide support for when the wall eventually moved out too far to support the truss.

You can imagine my concern. You can probably also imagine the cost of repair estimates! I had to strip the roof anyway to insert a breathable membrane so I left things for a few years until I got around to the roof work and the scaffolding was up. Working from the scaffolding made it a lot easier to see the problem once the tiles were removed and it was actually worse than thought because not only was the ceiling beam to providing lateral restraint to the wall, the roof truss timber had also parted company with the ceiling beam. Basically, the joint was no longer a joint!

It seemed to me there were two main options. 1) cut back the timbers, scarf in new oak and remake the whole joint or 2) somehow stabilise the current positions of the timbers to tie everything together and prevent further movement. Scarfing in new oak was probably beyond my ability but even so it might not have been possible because the three main pieces of timber had moved out of alignment, so it wouldn;t really have been a new joint as such, more of a stabilisation solution like option 1. So, option 1 it was and I bought some lengths of 100x10mm steel and fabricated a number of brackets that were bolted around the timbers and welded together to create a sort of 'steel skeleton' holding everything in position.

It was a tricky job because I couldn't do the welding in situ due the fire risk but I needed to hold the steel pieces together in the correct position prior to full welding in the workshop. So, for each piece I lugged the welder up onto the scaffolding, bolted the bits of steel into place around the timbers and then tack-welded them together, with a buckets of water at the ready in case of any problems! I then had to unbolt the now-joined pieces to remove them and take everything back down to the workshop to be properly welded and reinforced where required. I think I did this three or four times before I had the complete 'steel skeleton' which was then assembled and bolted into the final position. The result was that the three pieces of oak forming the structural joint were totally immobilised and locked together, even if they were not exactly in their original positions.

Twelve years on, there has been no further movement of the wall and no visible cracking of the external render or the internal plaster in the vicinity of the joint. There is also no visible signs of the steelwork except for an internal plate bolted to an oak plate in the bedroom below, although it is barely noticeable after being painted black like the oak plate was originally (well, I mean painted by someone long before my tenure).

I've droned on about the details to explain why it was a tricky job and why it would have cost an arm and a leg to have it done professionally. In reality, it cost me a couple of £100 for the steel (I already had a welder) and about a week of my time. It also, I think, illustrates the options and trade-offs we all have to make regarding our period properties - do we throw money at the problem and pay others to fix it or do we throw our own time at it and learn to fix it ourselves?

I also believe that one of the biggest things that stands in the way of DIY fixes is not knowing how to do things and not being confident enough to decide things for ourselves. To my mind, not knowing something is nothing to be ashamed about because none of us were born knowing anything and everything we know we have learned. No one learns everything, of course, but we can (broadly) choose what we do learn and my philosophy is that if a bunch of people from the 1500s managed to build my house in the first place, with all the limited resources available to them, then I'd like to think that I, with all the incredible resources available to me - both physical (tools) and educational (internet) - should also be able to learn how to fix things. Sure, some things require a degree of skill as well as knowledge, but skill comes with practice and I've also found that going slow and steady can yield the same results as a more skilled worker who could probably do the same job in a fraction of the time that I could. But that's not really the point, because it's the quality of the job that really matters, not how long it took. In 100 years time, no one will dissect my roof to inspect the repair work and wonder how long it took, but I hope they will be impressed that it has held for all that time and helped to preserve the, then 600 year old, house. Perhaps this forum might still exist in 100 years and future PPUKers will read this post and smile.