Double Glazing and repairing windows

[Feltwell]

Re. the Magnalaze system:-

I think I can see two possible disadvantages to that system. Firstly, I imagine that the strips stuck to the window frame (not sure whether it's the steel or the magnet) would be rather unsightly when the secondary window is removed.

It struck me that they would also be a pain when it comes to re-painting the window, trying to cut-in new paintwork around the stuck-on strips. But, it then occured to me that if you could paint over them then both problems are solved - they would be practically invisible. The website says it is a "magnet to magnet", i.e. both the secondary glazing surround and the strip stuck to the window are magnetic.

Secondly, £100 - £120 per m^2!!

That was the real disadvantage that struck me! Boy, that's not cheap. A very, very quick internet search revealed 4mm Cast Acrylic (to suit the "easyfix" system Penners highlighted earlier) cut to custom size at £41 per m2, inc VAT. Even with buying the edging strip that's got to be only half the cost of Magneglaze - and Magneglaze uses 3mm acrylic.

The same website also did a "glass look" perspex cut to size at £37 per m2 for a 3mm thickness, and £59 for 5mm thickness. Site was http://www.plasticstockist.com although I'm sure there are plenty of others.

Re. the "easyfix" system - the clear surround option sounds appealing at first but it bet it would end up looking grotty after a while. Dirt is bound to get under the edging strip eventually, similarly I wouldn't be at all surprised if that edging strip goes opaque or yellows with age. I suspect the coloured ones would look better for longer.

 

[Feltwell]

Ahh, here we go, this is more like it:-

http://www.magnetick.co.uk/gbu0-catshow/magnetic-secondary-glazing.html

30m of tape for £35, so by my maths that would make a 1m2 window using the 3mm "glass effect" perspex detailed above around £42, as opposed to £100 - £120 for Magneglaze. I don't doubt the Magneglaze is good but that's a big difference.

Now, the question is, are we talking about secondary glazing all of a sudden because:-

A) We have a well planned schedule of works and it just so happens that it's time to sort out those draughty windows or

B) It's bl**dy cold, we've been putting the job off for ages or just never thought of it, and we're all freezing!

I know which one I fall under!! :wink:

 

[Penners]

are we talking about secondary glazing all of a sudden because:-

A) We have a well planned schedule of works and it just so happens that it's time to sort out those draughty windows or

B) It's bl**dy cold, we've been putting the job off for ages or just never thought of it, and we're all freezing!

However true your analysis may be (!) we're actually talking about it in an attempt to solve Theo's problem.

By the way, there are, of course, cheaper 'glazing' plastics than acrylic sheet. There's quite a cheap one that seems to be sold in most DIY sheds - I can't remember what it's called or what the material is - could it be styrene? However, in my experience, it is more difficult to work with satisfactorily. It cracks easily when being cut or drilled.

 

[Feltwell]

However true your analysis may be (!) we're actually talking about it in an attempt to solve Theo's problem.

Yes, very true, another thread wandering off topic!

I've used styrene as well, agree with what you say. Cheap but I wouldn't want it in my house permanently, it looks cheap as well. I bought quite a large sheet for about £16 from memory from Wickes to use as temporary glazing whilst I removed and painted sashes.

 

[Feltwell]

One important point that no-one has mentioned - if you're looking at covering an opening window during the winter in such a way that you can't open it, don't forget to consider how you would get out in the event of a fire.

Sorry if that's stating the bleedin' obvious!

 

[Lime]

One important point that no-one has mentioned - if you're looking at covering an opening window during the winter in such a way that you can't open it, don't forget to consider how you would get out in the event of a fire.

Sorry if that's stating the bleedin' obvious!

I don't think that is stating the obvious.
On the contrary too many people give it no thought at all.
Everyone should have a fire escape plan and everyone in the house should know it.
Many of the plastic double glazed windows are very awkward to open and get out of and breaking the glass on a double glazed unit is very difficult if not impossible on some windows.

It never ceases to amaze me that for over 20 years I have read stories in newspapers about people being trapped in fires from which they would almost certainly escaped if they had had a working smoke alarm in their house.
It is still happening.
Even when smoke alarms are extremely cheap some people don't fit them.

I have 14 smoke detectors, both ion and optical, dotted around my house together with CO2 extinguishers in appropriate places.
If I never have to use them they will have paid for themselves with my own peace of mind alone.

 

[biffvernon]

I have 14 smoke detectors, both ion and optical, dotted around my house

Do you not make toast?

 

[Lime]

I have 14 smoke detectors, both ion and optical, dotted around my house

Do you not make toast?

Not quite sure what that has to do with it as the recommendations for fitting fire alarms is to not place them in a kitchen or bathroom.
However I have alarms in both bathrooms and they have never gone off except once when my younger son decided to find out what would happen if he set fire to an unrolled toilet roll on the bathroom floor.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/154950.pdf

http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/SmokeAlarms.asp

 

[Flyfisher]

Back to the secondary DG, yes, I agree summer storage might be an issue, particularly for large pieces. My guess is that I'd only remove certain units during the summer, although it would likely be for reasons of idleness rather than space saving - but I'll remember the space-saving argument just in case.

 

[Feltwell]

One advantage of the perspex and magnetic strip / "easyfix" clips methods over wooden frames and glass - a lot lighter and very thin, I reckon if I go ahead and do mine I can slide the sheets behind a wardrobe in summer.

 

[wombat]

Hi there
When i first moved to this house i found the sashes all painted solid /broken chords and rot my first reaction,replace but after much thought and advise decided on repair,apart from new bottom rails that have routed moulding i am gradually bringing them back to their 1900 glory.
the first head ache was condensation that causes rot and heat loss hence my stop-gap method of secondary glazing which works really well ,i hope to fancy them up when i get time-(no comments on the decor)
i dont know how to post pics yet ,hope this gives ideas http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/teewal/mysashes/index.html

 

[Ian Bond]

I like your solution - has the condensation problem reduced significantly since you put the 2ndary glazing in place?

 

[Penners]

wombat

How have you clipped the secondary glazing in? In the picture that quadrant beading looks rather permanent!

 

[wombat]

Hi sorry for late reply,i have been away from a pc.
As i mentioned i made these when i realised the potential dammage due to condensation,the frame fits inside the beadbing round the sash ,the frame has the E shaped draught strip (get it in rolls from b+q) all the way round ,this compresses when the frame is inserted,if the sash is not too draughty they stay in fine.
The difference has been so that only when very frosty is there a hint of condensation and then only one window(to be sorted).i dont have a damp problem just the norm with cooking etc,i've done the whole house including my large 4 window bay,each frame is 18 mm deep (same as the beading)so storeage is easy .
i will add a couple of pics extra here http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/teewal/mysashes/
very soon-- may explain things better
T

 

[AMc]

wombat - very nice and a picture truly paints a thousand words. I'll keep that in mind when I get to mine.

 

[Penners]

wombat - I'm still a bit unclear on how you hold the secondary glazing in place. Is it just wedged in by the draught-strip?

 

[wombat]

Penners-yes the frames as the pic really grip and compress the strip,on the stairs window (the largest) i have secured it with 2 small ornate brass brackets-1 each side half way up as a back up.
i reckon magnetic strip would be good and not visable-as mentioned i made these in haste to catch the winter,still i have to tell folks they are in otherwise they are unnoticed.
T

 

[Penners]

OK, thanks for that.

 

[Feltwell]

To resurrect an old thread:-

Days getting colder, and the arrival of mini-Feltwell No.3 due in January, has spurred me into action to try and make the house a bit warmer. The draughty windows must be having an effect - most them need restoring and when I do that I am draught-proofing them, but it's a very slow summer-only job and I need something quick.

So, I tried the Magnestick DIY secondary glazing kit that I posted up on here earlier in this thread - and I'm very pleased with the result.

I thought I'd do a small unobtrusive window first to see how it worked before committing too much cash - so I started with this window, in our en-suite:-

Please ignore the hideous wallpaper, nasty cheap window furniture and badly fitted architrave - job no. 300045 to sort those out....

First of all you stick a steel tape round the window. It's very thin - about 0.5mm - and white faced. To cut it I used aviation-type tin snips, it is still difficult to cut the ends square though. It's not very flexible so the window surface needs to be quite flat. The adhesive seems to take a few seconds to cure so you do have time to re-position it if you're quick!

And in close up:-

Once it's been painted over to match the frame, I don't think you'd notice it.

Next you stick the magnetic tape to the back of the perspex sheet. This is thicker, more flexible and much softer - you can cut it with scissors. The adhesive is instant grab though, you can't reposition it! The adhesive, i.e. what you can see through the perspex, is white, but the magnetic material is dark grey.

The finished item:-

And the edge in close up:-

I went for the "glass look" perspex, and that was a mistake. It basically seems to be ordinary perspex with a slight green tinge to it - it does look like glass but it has too much of a green tint to it and it also makes the white magnetic tape backing appear to be green. Better I reckon to go for normal clear cast perspex, which is also cheaper.

Magentic tape kit came from here:-

http://www.magnetick.co.uk/gbu0-prodshow/diy-secondary-glazing-magnetic-double.html

And I bought 3mm cut-to-size perspex from here, via mail order:-

http://www.plasticstockist.com/index.cfm?page=cHJvZHVjdHM=&sector=MQ==&group=NDA=

Job took about an hour start-to-finish, and I wasn't rushing. With a bit more practice I reckon about 30-40 minutes per window, providing no modifcation to the window is required.

For my sash windows I will have to find something to replace the sash lifts - they stick out too far. Any suggestions?

 

[AMc]

(Resurrecting an old thread rather than starting a new one to keep the information in one place)

I need to secondary glaze 6 original windows to conform with my Building Regulations approval. One is fixed (non opening), two 3 over 6 vertical sashes, one 2 over 4 vertical sashes and two casements.

I've had a quote for 4mm perspex with magnetic strip of £250 - I'd need to build light weight secondary frames to fit the reveals where I can't face fix. I'd also need to remove and store the glazing if I wanted to open the windows in summer. I'm worried these may look a bit cheap compared with my lovingly restored sashes.

I've has a second quote of roughly £1100 for glazed sliding aluminium frames which would arrive pre-built and face fix or into the reveals from these people http://www.secondaryglazing.com/

My folks have similar fixed secondary frames from Everest fitted in a house they've just bought but I'm guessing they would be substantially more expensive - anyone know before I invite a double glazing salesman into my home :shock: ?

I'm tempted by the more expensive fixed glass frames but I'm hoping someone has experience of them?
Fitting would be DIY for reasons of cost and care.