Door Handle Spindles . . .

[Flyfisher]

. . . you know, those metal square bars that connect door handles to the door lock.

My job for today (well, one of them) was to fit a set of door handles to a new door. New modern lock and new handles. Simple . . . . except that the handles came with a spindle too short for the thickness of the door so I tried to use the longer spindle that was supplied with the lock, but it was too large for the door handles.

Looking on the web it seems that the standard spindle size is 8mm square (as is the one supplied with the lock) but the one supplied with the handles is 7.4mm.

Although the smaller spindle will operate the lock, it means that there is quite a bit of 'play' before the lock mechanism is engaged, which is not ideal.

At first I thought this could be a metric/imperial thing and that a suitable two-size spindle/adapter would be easily available (i.e. 8mm in the centre for the lock and 7.4mm at the ends for the handles) but I can't find one on the web so perhaps I'm just being over fussy about the amount of play in the handle.

If I'd bought a £9 pair of handles then I probably wouldn't have given it much thought but at 10x that price I was rather expecting a perfect fit.

Has anyone else encountered this issue?

 

[Owain]

Take off 0.3 mm on each face of the handle ends of the spindle with a file.

 

[stephenh]

Sounds familiar - very frustrating.
I ended up with electrical tape round the middle - trial and error for how much.
After a couple of years it wore through and became annoying so I bought :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steel-Door-Spindle-Bars-for-Handles-and-Knobs-8mm-X-8mm-Square-Section-/330862880448?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Door_Accessories_LE&var=&hash=item4d08f6e6c0

and filed down the ends.....

Good luck

 

[88v8]

Fortunately I still have a few old 5/16" spindles, and anyway our cottage doesn't have doors, but if I needed to make new ones

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KEY-STEEL-KEYWAY-SQUARE-BAR-250MM-8MM-8-MM-X1-BS4235-/271193452734?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3f2463b0be

Ivor

 

[Flyfisher]

5/16 inch is equivalent to 8mm ((7.9375) and should work perfectly well with standard door locks. This size of spindle seems to be widely available, it's the 7.4mm size for the handles that seems to be the issue.

It's not a big problem in the grand scheme of things because, as mentioned above, it's easy enough to reduce the ends of 8mm spindles to fit the 7.4mm handles. I'm just surprised that new handles would be made with a non-standard spindle size, resulting in a 'sloppy' fit to the lock . . . especially from such a well-regarded company as Jim Lawrence.

To be fair to JL, they told me they have occasionally had customers ask them about this and that they could make me a 'dual size' spindle if necessary, so I can only assume that most customers are happy with (or have not noticed?) the amount of 'play' in the operation of their locks when fitted with such spindles.

 

[CliffordPope]

Door locks and handles/knobs often take some ingenuity to make work nicely.
There are several different systems:

One end fixed in the knob, the other with a thread that screws into the other knob, with a locking plate.
Some need to be gripped by both knobs, in order to pull the door, others use a free-floating spindle and the knob mounting screws to the door.
Some have one system on one side and a different one on the other.
Some have a series of plain holes and a threaded peg that screws into the knob, some have threaded holes in the actual spindle. Often the available hole spacing does not coincide with the door thickness, so it needs careful use of brass plates and washers to take up the end-float.

And then there are the thin spindles, almost half the size of modern ones.

 

[Flyfisher]

Indeed. We have a some of those examples on a few internal doors with old door knobs and fitting them so that they don't rattle around is the usual malarky we all expect (and secretly love) when dealing with period things.

But the one that prompted this topic was a brand new lever handle fixed to a backplate, so the spindle is simply 'sandwiched' between the handles on each side of the door and the only 'fitting' that is usually required is cutting the spindle to the correct length (and even that is unnecessary with a standard thickness door).

I suppose wasn't expecting to require the services of an angle-grinder just to fit some brand new modern door handles.

 

[Zebra]

I suppose wasn't expecting to require the services of an angle-grinder just to fit some brand new modern door handles.

Ah, nothing is ever as easy as it seems it should be. This we all know!

 

[Flyfisher]

You're absolutely right of course, but I'm an incurable optimist. You'd think I'd have learned by now!

 

[Penners]

I've found that several of the spindles in our house have been increased in section by having a thin, square, metal sleeve slipped over them. I wondered why this was, and you have now given me the explanation.

I wonder whether these sleeve adaptors can be bought separately. It might be worth checking out. I reckon if anyone is going to stock them it would be Thorns in Norwich.

 

[Moo]

I reckon if anyone is going to stock them it would be Thorns in Norwich.

Of course!

 

[Penners]

Just wondered whether you were paying attention, Moo!

 

[Moo]

You should know by now, Penners, that I hang on your every word.

 

[Penners]

Waiting to pounce! :wink:

 

[Flyfisher]

I've found that several of the spindles in our house have been increased in section by having a thin, square, metal sleeve slipped over them. I wondered why this was, and you have now given me the explanation.

I wonder whether these sleeve adaptors can be bought separately. It might be worth checking out. I reckon if anyone is going to stock them it would be Thorns in Norwich.

PPUK - the fount of all knowledge!

Well almost. A quick google would suggest that 7mm to 8mm and 5mm to 8mm splindle sleeves are quite widely available but I've not found anything for 7.4mm to 8mm. Perhaps it's too close? The sleeve material could only be a maximum of 0.3mm thick for it to work.

I've double-checked the spindle and it's definitely 7.4mm (well 7.39 according to my digital caliper).

Hmm. Back to the bench grinder then.

 

[Moo]

Do you mean that you've been to Thorns and they haven't got what you want?

When I lived in Norwich I used to play a game with Peter the manager. I'd go to his office (at the top of the stairs opposite the counter) and declare triumphantly "I've found something that you don't stock."
Peter would then either produce it or pull a catalogue off the shelf, and show me a page on which was just what I wanted.
I played this game for over a decade, and Peter always won.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Do you mean that you've been to Thorns and they haven't got what you want?

When I lived in Norwich I used to play a game with Peter the manager. I'd go to his office (at the top of the stairs opposite the counter) and declare triumphantly "I've found something that you don't stock."
Peter would then either produce it or pull a catalogue off the shelf, and show me a page on which was just what I wanted.
I played this game for over a decade, and Peter always won.

They don't have bakelite screws.
They do, however, have bakelite-coloured caps for ordinary screws

 

[Penners]

The sleeve material could only be a maximum of 0.3mm thick for it to work.

The sleeves are very thin, but without a micrometer about my person, I'm unable to measure them (or to visualise 0.3mm!)

 

[Penners]

They don't have bakelite screws.

I guess they don't have chocolate nails, either.

Why would you want Bakelite screws?!

 

[timinder]

The sleeve material could only be a maximum of 0.3mm thick for it to work.

The sleeves are very thin, but without a micrometer about my person, I'm unable to measure them (or to visualise 0.3mm!)

0.3mm looks like the square root of, erm, not very much! (or roughly the thickness of 3 sheets of photocopier paper)