Data cabling - is it worth it?

[Feltwell]

Just got my shiny new computer, and I'm very pleased with it - so much faster than the old one, not entirely surprising as the old one was only a cheap model and I bought it in 2001.

I'm in the midst of sorting out a new bedroom for my daughter, in one of our attic rooms. If I was to run data cabling then now would be the time to do it, but is it worth it?

My current setup is that a desktop is situated downstairs, connected by a cable to a wireless router, which in turn is connected to a telephone extension socket. My works laptop and the kid's laptop run off the wireless.

With 3 young kids, the demand for t'internet access here will only grow! I could move the router upstairs to where our BT master socket is, fit RJ45 sockets and cable from there to the rest of the main "computer points" - but is it worth it, will I get much speed advantage over using wireless?

Our wireless is OK - every now & then it has a cob on and refuses to work, but mostly it's alright. The laptops are a little slow for web browsing, but neither of them are the latest greatest models so it could be down to them rather than the wireless. Is wireless still developing and getting faster & more reliable?

 

[Penners]

Theoretically, a cable connection will be faster than wireless - assuming your router and wireless adaptors are running on the 802.11g protocol (802.11n will be a lot faster than g, provided the whole setup runs that protocol).

But if you're looking for maximum internet connection speed, then the communication between the computers and the router probably isn't the issue. Unless you're on Virgin cable or BT's new Infiniti, with a very high speed account, the internet connection itself is likely to be the slowest ship in your convoy. And of course the more of you that are sharing the bandwidth, the slower each connection will run.

If you have just an average-speed ADSL internet account, I certainly wouldn't bother with data cabling.

 

[MdB]

I had decided not to fit cabling as a combination of wireless and powerline adapters looked like they would get internet where ever I needed it.

However, things change. I now have a NAS box with gigabit ethernet which currently has to sit next to my main PC to get good access speeds. Wireless is way too slow and powerline isn't that much better.

There is also a likelihood that in the next couple of years we will get FTTH which currently offers 40Mb speeds but it capable of a lot more. It would seem silly to get this and then limit my speeds within the house to wireless or powerline.

I am therefore rethinking putting some cable in.... (I would put in Cat6)

 

[Feltwell]

Ooo-er - lots of techno stuff. We have bog standard BT broadband, nothing fancy. As to what protocol we are running - wassthat mean then??

It's more about future-proofing for me than anything else - putting data in now is a bit of pain, doing it once all the rooms are finished is a major pain. Is Cat 6 likely to become obsolete? What's the difference between Cat 5e and Cat 6? I can get sockets for either through my work.

In 5-10 years time I can see us having occasions when 4 computers are on the go at once, which I presume would slow our connection right down. Incidentally, new shiny computer records our connection speed as:-

 

[Tom]

So jealous :mrgreen:

 

[MdB]

The latest wireless standard (802.11n) is supposed to work to 100Mb+ speeds though in practise it is likely to be less than this. You are more likely to have 802.11g currently which goes to 50Mb. Again actual speeds are likely to be less.
Powerline homeplug AV is good for 50Mb.

All the above are better than most broadband speeds which are in the 1Mb to 10Mb range for most people. Therefore, using wireless or powerline to link computers to the internet isn't a problem.

However, cable broadband speeds are now at 100Mb and 200Mb is being talked about. Fibre is offering 40Mb currently but the technology is capable of 1000Mb+ so the broadband speeds available in say 5 years time are likely to higher than wireless or powerline currently can cope with. Wireless and powerline speeds will improve but it is unlikely by very much unless the regulations are changed.

The other thing to consider is transfer of files / data between computers within your home network. The main one to consider for this is streaming video from your computer to your TV, an application that I think will become bigger in the future. Moving HD TV across a network requires a reasonable bandwidth.

Cat6 is a bit better than Cat5e and is only a bit more expensive then Cat5e so is worth fitting if you can get it at a sensible price. It should be good for 1G ethernet which is the latest standard you are likely to see in the home for a while. Either type, keep the bend radius large. They don't like going around tight corners.

 

[Flyfisher]

Is it worth it? - I'd say so, but it does depend on your household's use of computers.
Would I do it? - without a doubt. I completely data-wired a previous house and am slowly doing the same with this one.

Wi-fi has its place but I regard it as an addition to the wired infrastructure. I've also used powerline adapters for extending the LAN to rooms where I didn't have data cabling, but I regard that as a tactical addition to the basic strategy of a fixed data wiring system. If you have more than one PC in the house then I would recommend data wiring; it's fast, secure, reliable and simple. All PCs and laptops come with a LAN (Local Area Network) connection these days and all you need to do is plug it into one of your data sockets and away you go. Laptops all support wi-fi but few PCs do (although it's fairly easy to add). A wired LAN doesn't require fiddling around with passwords and encryption keys. If your household has a number of PCs then you're likely to be copying files over the LAN at some stage. A wired LAN will be much, much faster. If you store all your music, home videos and photos on a central ("server") PC then a wired LAN will enable faster access to them from the other household PCs. If you wish to stream music and/or video throughout the house, then a wired LAN will give the best performance, meaning pretty much jitter-free playback. Centralising all your important stuff on a single PC makes it easy to manage and access and also much easier to protect with regular backups. I could go on (and on, and on) but I freely confess to being biased - install data wiring whenever you can!

Also, don't forget that such cabling will support telephones as well as computers, so there is no need to install two types of wiring around the house. Ideally, I would probably have a dual data outlet next to every mains socket (OK, not for every kitchen socket!), for power, data and telephone, making it easy to set up a working desk anywhere convenient.

I agree with MdB about internet speeds. These will only increase in the years to come and once FTTH is rolled out then the sky is (almost) the limit as far as speeds are concerned, though I'm not holding my breath. It may be difficult to envisage why we'd need more than 100Mbps web-connections but having started working in the computer industry in 1980 when 9,600 bit per second modems were state-of-the art (yes, about 10,000 times slower than a PC LAN connection today), I hesitate to make any predictions. At least data cabling is the cheapest and most practically future-proof form of wiring we can easily install today.

As for Cat5e or Cat6, while it makes sense to install the latest type of cabling, in practice I don't think it makes a great deal of difference for most domestic applications. The performance specifications for such 'structured cabling systems', as they are called, are based on 90m of fixed (solid-core) wiring plus two 5m lengths of flexible (stranded patch leads). With a centrally-located 'hub', few domestic installations are going to have cable runs anywhere near to 100m, so ekeing out the last drop of performance is not so important. Thus, a gigabit LAN connection might not work over 100m of Cat5 cable but will almost certainly be fine over 10-20m.

The only thing you really need to think of before starting installing data wiring is where to install your 'hub'. This is the term for the place where all the data wires converge. It can be anwhere really, but it's helpful to be close to the main telephone socket(s) so that the internet router and any other LAN devices can all be installed in the same place and patched into the wiring system.

There is a lot of info on the web about such cabling systems or, rather than turn PPUK into a computer geek forum, feel free to PM me if you'd like more examples of how I've installed data wiring.

 

[Delta]

For web surfing I’d not bother, even with your 5MB download speed. Even wireless should give you 5MB these days, and I reckon wireless or the future technology will keep pace far in excess of broadband. I dream of having one whole megabyte, so I’ll be OK!

I have however put in some cabling because I want a faster more reliable network. I stream video between machines, as well as running backups across my network.

For example I have a media PC that records everything, and whilst we watch most stuff direct of that box in the lounge I also wanted to stream stuff to other media devices, and wireless just doesn’t cut it, especially not with 12-18” thick internal brick walls. Powerline, never tried, been tempted but have heard anecdotally that it never matches the advertised speeds, just like wireless.

I also want to backup machines that are physically disperse, so again hard wired was the only way to go for speed.

Saying that I’ll not be flood wiring the house, despite my initial temptation, although that was probably more geek factor! I can't justify cutting the lime plaster all over the house, and the wife goes bananas when I do, although I am less sentimental on the modern gypsum walls which happen to cover the key locations that I’ve wanted to cover so far.

All our day to day use is over wireless, via laptops, but that uses multiple wireless points to get coverage. I do dock my laptop on the desk when working, but more for the large monitor, although it also does the backup overnight, but that’s it.

So apart from my high bandwidth internal use, the other reason why you may wish to consider some cabling is to use multiple wireless access points. Recently done this for a friend, he as a (Period C 16th) long thin house, so running some CAT5 through the attic means we have two wireless access points linked to the single ADSL router and now have decent coverage throughout the house.

I have other friends who have town houses, 4 floors, they struggle with wireless too, but an extra access point over supplied PowerLine may plug the gap.

BTW as a rule mounting your wireless access point higher will give better coverage. An upstairs bedroom rather than the hall downstairs, or even the loft in a bungalow.

 

[Feltwell]

Thanks everyone - as you can tell, my knowledge is err, limited..... (in the extreme!)

What I had thought of doing was putting my wireless router, which has 4 x RJ45 sockets on the back for wired connections, next to my BT Master socket on the 1st floor of the house. Then simply mount a 4 gang RJ45 socket on the wall next to it - each socket then hardwired to another single RJ45 socket at an appropriate point throughout the house. Patch lead from router to appropriate socket on my 4 gang RJ45, then patch lead from the other end to the relevant PC.

Now I could well be talking out of my behind - is this a reasnoble way to go? Having the wireless router on the 1st floor will make more sense than it's current location, which is in the very bottom corner of the house - for those occasions when I do want to use the wireless.

Connection to the TV is a good point, and is something I'd never even considered before getting this new machine - but this one will actually allow iplayer to work properly! A cable to the TV is relatively easy to run, as both rooms are suspended timber floors with about a 3' gap underneath - enough room to crawl under there, even if the access hatch (under the sofa!) is a little bit of a squeeze for me......

 

[robgil]

if i want to stream anything from one machine to another i use an sd card. simples.
edit - if your kids moan about their internet tell them to go out and play with their friends instead of frying their brains in front of a tv screen.

 

[Flyfisher]

Now I could well be talking out of my behind - is this a reasnoble way to go?

Well if you are, it's making sense. :wink:

Below is an old photo of a previous house with all the data stuff in the attic. The wiring to the rest of the house was terminated into the 4-way outlets in each pattress box and then patched to the Netgear boxes. The white BT box is an ISDN line (this photo was before we had broadband installed, but it makes no practical difference) and the large Netgear box is the ISDN modem/router. Because it only had one LAN connection I needed the other two Netgear boxes to expand the number of LAN connections for patching to the data wiring. Modern routers usually have 4 LAN ports, which is a good start, but if you need more then an additional multi-port 'network switch' is easy and cheap to add later.

One of the 4-way outlet boxes handles the telephone distribution. I had three phone lines at the time and the data wiring made it very easy to patch any number to any outlet around the house. The grey module hanging from one of the phone ports is a converter that allows a standard telephone to be plugged into the data wiring.

 

[Pford75]

It's worth bearing in mind that increasingly, it's not just PCs which require internet access. In our household, we have 3 PCs, 1 Mac, xbox, wii, TV, 2 network printer and a sling box.. Its also likely that in the near future, our set-top boxes will require internet access (my company Cisco already produces a home video conferencing box). Some of these can function wirelessly, but some demand a fixed connection (eg. Our TV).

Speaking with my professional hat on, 'the internet of things' is coming and by 2015 there will be nearly twice as many 'things' connected as computers.

 

[Penners]

the broadband speeds available in say 5 years time are likely to higher than wireless or powerline currently can cope with.

MdB - doesn't this depend very much on where you live? I agree that perhaps 75% of the population will see substantially increased broadband speeds within about 5 years, but in rural areas (like here) I don't see that happening in 5 or even 10 years. It's just not commercially viable to add our very rural local exchange to the fibre network, so we're likely to be stuck with copper for the foreseeable future.

It's interesting to see the variety of responses to this thread. On the one hand the "professional/enthusiast" group regards data cabling as desirable, nay essential, in order to squeeze every last kilobit down the line as quickly as possible. On the other hand, the "amateur/average user" group (to which I belong) has a more "is it worth it?" sort of attitude. I suppose it comes down to a simple matter of which group Feltwell belongs to - that and the potential for improved broadband speeds at his location.

 

[Penners]

Below is an old photo of a previous house with all the data stuff in the attic.

FF, your picture reminds me of an old photographic joke about the difference between a man's sex drive and a woman's:-

 

[MdB]

the broadband speeds available in say 5 years time are likely to higher than wireless or powerline currently can cope with.

MdB - doesn't this depend very much on where you live? I agree that perhaps 75% of the population will see substantially increased broadband speeds within about 5 years, but in rural areas (like here) I don't see that happening in 5 or even 10 years. It's just not commercially viable to add our very rural local exchange to the fibre network, so we're likely to be stuck with copper for the foreseeable future.

40% of Cornwall will have Fibre to the Cabinet and 40% will have Fibre to the Home in the next few years. The remainder will have alternative forms of getting higher speeds than current broadband.

If it works out, I can see the rest of the country following.

Speeds are on their way up.

 

[skier-hughes]

We have BT vision for our tv, for no other reason than as a Microsoft MVP I did a very small amount of work on it by testing and it seemed a good idea.
For this we use 2 powerline adaptors, these though are rated at 200mbps, slightly different to the 50 mentioned below.
I've not tested the speed on them against our wireless network, but they work fine for streaming HD films to our tv, they work fine when working out in the log cabin, which is too far away for the wireless signal, but has power.
I'm a big user of the internet, for large file transfer and wireless and powerline work fine for me. Data cabling seemed too much of a pain to install, we're having enough trouble getting the neccessary wiring into place for all the sockets we need 2 in a lounge is not good!!, without trying to squeeze more in.
Horses for courses

 

[MdB]

For this we use 2 powerline adaptors, these though are rated at 200mbps, slightly different to the 50 mentioned below.

Show me a 200Mb powerline adaptor which has anything other than a 100Mb ethernet connection on it. (The Belkin one doesn't count as it is rubbish.) Real life speeds are very approx 50mb YMMV.

 

[skier-hughes]

This is ours, no idea what is in it
http://www.comtrend.com/cgi-bin/cee/db-search.cgi?template=Product&dbname=product&key2=61&action=searchdbdisplay

http://www.comtrend.com/cee/dbase/upload/PowerGrid902_R1.pdf

I would have thought if the internals limited it to 100mbps then advertising it as a 200mbps unit would have been stopped by now, we've had them some years!

 

[MdB]

This is ours, no idea what is in it
http://www.comtrend.com/cgi-bin/cee/db-search.cgi?template=Product&dbname=product&key2=61&action=searchdbdisplay

http://www.comtrend.com/cee/dbase/upload/PowerGrid902_R1.pdf

I would have thought if the internals limited it to 100mbps then advertising it as a 200mbps unit would have been stopped by now, we've had them some years!

From the data sheet 10/100 Base T: i.e. 10Mb / 100Mb ethernet.

Data may travel between the two receivers at 200Mb which is why they can probably get away with advertising it that way. I would guess though that 75% of this is error correcting making the actual transmission rates closer to 50Mb. There are a lot of products advertised this way. It isn't unusual unfortunately.

My adapter is advertised exactly the same way.

 

[Flyfisher]

Re: Penners' photo, I'm tempted to add that those myriad, er, 'controls', are all part of the fun, but that might be far to risque for PPUK. :lol:

I understand Penners' point about types of user, but Pford75 raises a very important point that it's not just PCs that can connect to a network these days. I've not used a CD player for 5-6 years, but I do have a couple of music streaming devices that connect to my home LAN and enable me to play all my music through the hi-fi system using a remote control unit. It works very much like a CD player except there is no need to load CDs. It will also work wirelessly but is more reliable when wired to the LAN. Anyone with a router will know how they are typically configured and controlled over the LAN using a web browser. This type of control interface is increasingly being added to all sorts of appliances.

As for fibre in rural areas, it's not usually the exchange that's the issue as these will almost certainly already have fibre to the actual exchange, it's the wiring to the home or street cabinet that's the issue. But it will definitely happen, if only as part of general maintenance, as the actual optical cabling costs are negligible compared to the installation costs.

Also, these things have a habit of creeping up on us. 20 years ago the web didn't even exist, the "PC" was only 7 years old and still a relative rarity in most households, LANs were a mainly professional undertaking, structured (Cat5) cabling barely existed and broadband was still about 10 years away. Today, PCs are ubiquitous (with many households having more than one), the web is practically essential, LANs are simpler than wiring a 3-pin plug and broadband is one of the essential utilities of modern living, with new houses being built with data wiring already installed, just like electricity.

I see little sign of things slowing down in the near future.