Dangerous buiding renovation dilemma...

[middi]

You say you have plans and approved planning to convert.

I am stiil confused in trying to establish what exactly has local planning approved and whatever they have approved must have been plans drawn by an architect or competent person that understands planning criteria and building regs.

If i understand correctly, because of costs involved to carry out what has been approved it may save you money if you demolish the building.

That may be the case but it sounds as if you want to cut off your nose to spite your face, as you may well end up with a bit of worthless spare bit of ground instead of , potentially, a nice building worth a few bob. Not to mention the destruction of an historic building and realistically does not sound right. (unless you know better of course)

It must be cheaper to make the building safe and sell it if you have to, to someone that is willing to make a home out of it as opposed to demolition.

Or just wait untill you are able to do the work, as long as it is made safe .

I just cannot make head or tails of it all.

 

[middi]

Little Johny was asked by his teacher to explain the meaning of the words " POTENTIALLY" and "REALISTICALLY" , he couldn't, his teacher said:, " ask you father and tell me in the morning".

Little Johny asked his father who promptly replied:, " Ask your mother if she would go to bed with Mel Gibson for a million pounds".

Johny did just that and confirmed to his father that his mother would jump to it.

His fatther then said :, " go and ask your sister if she would go to bed with Brad Pitt for a million pounds", Johny returned with the answer from his sister confirming that she would jump at the chance.

His father replied; " there you go son, POTENTIALLY we could be millionaires but REALISTICALLY we are living with a couple of whores".

( couldn't resist it ).

 

[Penners]

It's the way you tell 'em.

 

[biffvernon]

Brilliant, Middi.

Any 250 year old cob building is of historic interest. Please repair it rather than pull it down. One of the nice things about cob is that it can be repaired with materials that cost nothing.

 

[Nemesis]

Chapels of that era would have been simple spaces - probably very barn-like - and cracks in timber may not be serious.

 

[Maris]

Cracks in cob, and cob walls bowing out, are not necessarily serious and worrisome things.
There are some specialist bods who could look at the cob walls and tell you whether or not they can be repaired.

If you're in Cornwall: http://www.cobincornwall.co.uk or Matt Robison http://www.build-art.co.uk a
or Devon: http://www.backtoearth.co.uk or http://www.devonearthbuilding.com. I'm sure there are others too. Plymouth University has an earthen architecture section who are a mine of useful contacts.

Cob is not expensive to repair, and it almost always can be. The only exception I can think of is if it has been sealed with cement tanking, and has become so wet that it collapses as soon as it is revealed. It doesn't sound as if that is the case here.

 

[Lynn]

The first Baptist church in England was built in Spitalfields, London - 1612.

The pic isn't it but here's more info.

http://www.eolfhs.org.uk/parish/spitalfields.htm

and

http://www.request.org.uk/main/churches/baptists/more01.htm

True enough that a segment came back to England, but...

Some of these Amsterdam Baptists became convinced that despite the risks, they should take their faith back to their homeland, and so in 1612 a group led by Thomas Helwys established the first Baptist church on English soil in Spitalfields. But soon they suffered severe persecution. Helwys himself was thrown into Newgate Prison in 1613 by order of King James I, perhaps for daring to write this: “The King is a mortall man and not God, therefore hath no power over y immortall soules of his subjects to make lawes and ordinances for them and to set spirituall Lords over them.”[iv] Three years later Helwys died in prison, and for years thereafter the early English Baptists suffered greatly for their faith in a “Christian” nation with a state-supported church.

Eventually some of these Baptists made their way to the American colonies, ... [and we poor sots are left with this legacy]

Well I did find a Baptist church that says it is the oldest continuous Baptist church in England and they didn't have a regular church building until 1856. Link here: http://www.cirencester-baptist.org/history.htm#section4
So while Baptists met in houses and informal meeting places earlier (probably to stay under the radar of the government) it seems that formal buildings generally speaking emerged later in history.

So my original point that it could be worth saving and I have to add "oh my the American Baptists have deep pockets these days...."

 

[Nemesis]

I think even if not a chapel, a cob building that old has to be rescued, not demolished or spoilt!

Interesting though about the baptists in the USA...

This is a baptist chapel in Oxfordshire, dating back to the early 18th century:

http://www.hct.org.uk/chapel1cote.html

 

[NT]

If you have a historic cob building converted, that can be expected to be worth significantly more than a new build. The biggest enemy of cob is water, which can come from the top, the bottom, or be trapped in by cement render.

Cob walls are very thick so a lot more lean is acceptable with cob than would be so with brick or block.

Seriously I'd get it looked at by a cob specialist before pulling it down, as you may lose out on a substantial sum otherwise.


NT

 

[Gervase]

I'm with NT - in your haste to be rid of the place you could be throwing money away. Cob is not expensive to repair, and is very desirable. Razing the place to the ground and building from scratch will probably cost a lot more and you'd have just another modern building.

 

[Nemesis]

In addition - different planning regs may apply... the plans passed presumably are for conversion. They would also be wasted...

 

[NT]

Yes, there would be loads of additional costs.


NT

 

[NT]

Yes, there would be loads of additional costs.

And splitting wood is elementary to repair.


NT

 

[Penners]

This is a baptist chapel in Oxfordshire, dating back to the early 18th century:

Don't tell me that you're now posting mucky pics to go with your mucky pome (that we have yet to read).

 

[Nemesis]

I assume that picture works then - can't remember how I did that!

This is odd - at times the picture works on my screen - but yes I've just seen tha message about it being removed!

It was NOT a mucky pic - it was this one...

 

[biffvernon]

I'm getting tired of that blue door.

 

[Nemesis]

See other thread... but ImageShack is easy... I like the thumbnail idea...

Gradually getting sorted with Photobucket, but I reckon register with an e-mail account you don't mind being SPAMmed...

 

[Lynn]

your link worked to the Historic Chapel site in the old post.

just curious, but how many Baptist churches are around England now. I live in a rural town of 4000 people and we have 9 Baptist churches in the telephone book. There are more than that because there is a fee to be in the telephone book. I don't even live in the "bible belt". This is an old Norwegian, German area of settlement (mostly Lutheran).

Any of you live in a small town UK? Any comparison?

Well to return to the topic I'd advise the impoverished property owner to find a nice big Baptist church in the area and brainstorm with them where some money might be to help with structural issues. Say you will put a nice sign outside that details the history of this rare and important church.

 

[Nemesis]

Most chapels are now redundant, along with many churches. Churchgoing isn't what it was, and it's a major problem as to what to do with the buildings. Hence bodies such as the Historic Chapels Trust.

Many have been sold off and badly converted over the years - garages, carpet warehouses... even unsympathetic house conversions.

In fact Methodism was I think far more widespread , in its many forms, than other non-conformist faiths.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.9238

 

[Lynn]

Nice article...but it seems to indicate that even maintaining the LISTED buildings is a challenge....finding funds for unlisted places would be impossible--at least government funding is out since they can't keep pace with what is presently recognized as important to preserve.

Also a point I need clarified (if the property owner returns to this engaging thread)--what do you mean by cob? In this area we have a return to strawbale construction, but what did they do 200 years ago? Or have you investigated the construction of the place in any detail? A picture would be nice since I and so many others have such an attachment to this project already.