Crown glass versus float glass - views ?

[Penners]

the timber is not mahogany in the botanical sense, i.e. a member of the Swietenia genus, all of whose species are listed under CITES as protected

In fact, I believe that over 100 tree species are casually described as "Asian Mahogany", which - as Biff says - is nothing like the true Honduran Mahogany.

Years ago, when I worked in the furniture industry, we were regularly offered supplies of furniture collections from south-east Asian manufacturers who would look you in the eye and assert that their supplies of timber were strictly regulated and limited to properly farmed species - they would even produce "official certificates" to prove this.

Bottom line: after further investigation we declined the supplier's offer. But I wonder how many people fell for their line.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I didn't know about this world of intrigue and deception - or, I did, but somehow thought the expensive end of things would be above it. How fascinating, how sad.

 

[biffvernon]

Do you think the stuff in Laura Ashley, Ikea and John Lewis is destroying the rainforests as well?

This page neatly links IKEA and the orang-utans.

http://naturealert.blogspot.com/2010/02/ikea.html

(Don't worry, this link is fairly sandwich friendly.)

 

[JoceAndChris]

You know I love animals, that's done nothing to cheer me up. No more palm oil then.

 

[biffvernon]

Stuff that Nestle make but we orang-utan lovers don't buy:

Confectionary: Aero,after 8's, black magic,blue riband, caramac, dairy box,fruit pastiles, heaven, kitkat, milky bar, munchies, polo, quality street, rolo, anything by Rowntrees, smarties, toffee, crisp,walnut whip, yorkie, matchmakers

Bottle water: Aqua panna, aquarel, buxton,contrex,perrier, powwow,san pellegrino,santa maria,valvert,vittel

Drinks:Necafe coffees, partners blend build-up, milo,nesquik

Processed Meals: buttoni, herta maggi, Osem/tivall

Dairy Products: Coffee-mate, tip-top, carnation, fussells, nestle and lyons maid ice-cream, yoghurts- munch bunch, ski, sveltesse

Pet foods: bakers,bonio,beta,bonza,felix,friskies,go-cat,gournmet,purina,one,vital balance,pro plan, winalot

cereals: cheerios,clusters, cookie crisp, fitnese, force flakes, fruitful, goldern grahams, goldern nuggets,shredded wheat, shreddies

Cosmetics
alcon, l'oreal, body shop, garnier, helena rubenstein, lancome, maybelline, redken, vichy

 

[JoceAndChris]

Gosh- what a terrifying list. Thanks for keeping us informed. Most of it isn't stuff I buy anyway though I'll wave a slightly sad farewell to Rolos!

 

[biffvernon]

A bit of background here http://news.mongabay.com/2010/0322-hance_nestle_boycott.html?

 

[Flyfisher]

I started reading that list, Biff, with some trepidation but was rather pleased to find that, with the exception of the odd kitkat (usually when filling up the car :roll, we don't buy any of those products. But I suppose that means I can't claim any particular credit for boycotting them either.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I am glad to know about this, but am wondering if it's really possible to avoid consumption of palm oil in my life, and, as usual, what impact it would have, if everybody were to forsake it, on the economy, jobs, lives of people in those countries?

These issues are so hard.

 

[biffvernon]

Yes, if us rich folk didn't keep plundering the natural resources of the poorer parts of the world the folk there would just have to use their own land to grow their own food and make their own furniture on which to sit and enjoy the sunset.

Our period properties were built by people who had no need for palm oil. It's actually a pretty nasty sort of fat, cheap and easy to slip into our food disguised as something else. It's main function is to keep profits for the world's largest privately owned company, Cargill, large.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I don't like the concept of globalisation, and the ensuing exploitation, or destruction, of the world's poorest economies and richest biodiversities. On a scale of things that bother me, the real plight of the orang-utans rates higher than what might happen with global warming. If the government suddenly insisted all our purchases had to be of things grown or made in the UK, I don't think I'd mind too much. It's very natural to want to eat locally grown food, to support the man down the road who makes windows. Our sympathy is aroused by what we see around us, our natural inclination is to make our world in our own touchable environment.

But I find myself in a world that doesn't work like that, with the clothes that I can afford generally made in China, my car from Japan, my new furniture from god knows where. And I think if I make an effort to only consume what's made locally, to chiefly buy second-hand, what real difference does it make? What hope is there for a changed world? A defeatist attitude I know, but also a rational one.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Life isnt quite as simple as "globalisation = expolitation" or "palm oil production = fat profits for private companies", although these are partial truths. When India and China were cut off from the rest of the world's trade and ploughing the furrow of self-sufficiency their populations were even poorer and more miserable then they are today.

The free market, democratic, capitalist system, for all its flaws, is the most effective yet devised for raising the standard of living of people in the countries which operate it by allowing them to buy things they want at good prices. The democratic component is important to moderate the market's effects on the less priviledged, and to regulate markets to prevent abuses, for example by cartels or monopolies. The challenge is not how to replace free markets or capitalism but how to generate enough democratic pressure to extend the regulatory role of states in limiting environmental damage and to change consumer behaviour.

On the whole it's people's desire for cheap food, clothes and other goods that drives the replacement of rainforsts for palm oil plantations, sweatshops with poor working conditions etc. These things will have to get more expensive and people's standards of living will have to decline to reverse the situation - a hard sell politically. We as individuals can help however. If we boycott Nestle, buy locally produced food, buy clothes from Savile Row (insisting on cloth woven in Huddersfield from British wool) rather than Primark, turn our thermostats down and urge our friends to do the same we will be doing our bit.

 

[JoceAndChris]

What a lovely, cheery post.

Is it possible to even buy clothing made entirely in this country though? Just had a look at Chris' shirts - Jaeger -China- Hackett - Morocco - Paul Smith - Italy. My stuff's a curious blend of Asda's and Joules these days, though I don't buy much it all seems to be made in China.

I go along with say no to Primark though. When we were teenagers we certainly didn't get continuous throwaway fashion as the kids do now.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Getting a bit off period property here, but with a future tailoring project in mind I have started to investigate cloth manufacturers as a possible source of supply. I was surprised to learn that much of the fine woollen and worsted cloth used at the upper end of the bespoke tailoring market is still woven in the UK, as of course are many traditonal tweed cloths. Much of the wool for the yarn however seems to come from Australia. I am trying to track down some cloth which is both UK woven and from UK sheep. Cotton and silk are more problematic but I am guessing that linen grown and woven in UK or the British Isles may be available.

 

[AMc]

I've been boycotting N*stle for as long as I can remember because their subsidiaries are STILL pushing powdered baby milk at mothers in the developing work with no safe water supply after decades of pressure to do otherwise. The palm oil problem is just another example of why some companies are not worthy of my money and I would sooner go without (or buy a Cadbury product )

If the government suddenly insisted all our purchases had to be of things grown or made in the UK, I don't think I'd mind too much. It's very natural to want to eat locally grown food, to support the man down the road who makes windows. Our sympathy is aroused by what we see around us, our natural inclination is to make our world in our own touchable environment.

I would miss lemons, olives, chorizo, vodka, tequila, COFFEE, TEA & WINE.

I make the best effort to buy in order...
Local organic food
Organic food from the UK
Local non organic food
Non organic food from the UK
Organic food from the EU
Non organic food from the EU
In the instances where that isn't possible then I try and buy Fairtrade.
After that it's pretty much a lottery about food miles, ethical labour and deforestation so I limit my consumption.

IMHO many people are most concerned with the price of things and not much else. Until that changes you can only make personal choices and explain them when people ask. I am of course privileged that I have the means to make most of these distinctions and recognise not everyone else does.

[just explaining my working, not crusading that everyone else should do the same]

 

[Nigel Watts]

I would miss lemons, olives, chorizo, vodka, tequila, COFFEE, TEA & WINE.

English wine is available and quite drinkable.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I find AMc's list fascinating, but hard. I just run round Sainsbury's in as short a time as is possible (I hate food shopping) picking up the first thing I see. I put zero thought into the priorities AMc identifies.

Coffee, oh, God, there's no way anything could happen here without that!

Your research into cloth was interesting Nigel: Scottish tweed - lovely. You'd find it hard to give up the silk for home furnishings though, so would I!

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, if us rich folk didn't keep plundering the natural resources of the poorer parts of the world the folk there would just have to use their own land to grow their own food and make their own furniture on which to sit and enjoy the sunset.

Well that's one interpretation. Another is that folk in the poorer parts of the world want to have a similar standard of living as us rich folk. They don't have to sell their rainforests do they?

This old joke comes to mind:

A boat docked in a tiny Mexican village. An American tourist complimented the Mexican fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took him to catch them.

“Not very long,” answered the Mexican.

“So why didn’t you stay out longer and catch more?” asked the American.

The Mexican explained that his small catch was sufficient to meet his needs and those of his family.

The American asked, “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”

“I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, and take a siesta with my wife. In the evenings, I go into the village to see my friends, have a few drinks, play the guitar, and sing a few songs. I have a full life.”

The American interrupted, “I have an MBA from Harvard and I can help you! You should start by fishing longer every day. You can then sell the extra fish you catch. With the extra revenue, you can buy a bigger boat.”

“And after that?” asked the Mexican.

“With the extra money the larger boat will bring, you can buy a second one and a third one and so on until you have an entire fleet of trawlers. Instead of selling your fish to a middle man, you can then negotiate directly with the processing plants and maybe even open your own plant. You can then leave this little village and move to Mexico City, Los Angeles, or even New York City! From there you can direct your huge new enterprise.”

“How long would that take?” asked the Mexican.

“Twenty, perhaps twenty-five years,” replied the American.

“And after that?”

“Afterwards? Well my friend, that’s when it gets really interesting,” answered the American, laughing. “When your business gets really big, you can start buying and selling stocks and make millions!”

“Millions? Really? And after that?” asked the Mexican.

“After that you’ll be able to retire, live in a tiny village near the coast, sleep late, play with your children, catch a few fish, take a siesta with your wife and spend your evenings drinking and enjoying your friends.”

 

[Penners]

FF - I have committed that story to (what remains of my) memory, for future use. A gem! Thank you.

 

[Penners]

English wine is available and quite drinkable.

There's a vineyard a couple of miles down the road from us, where they have a large display board listing all of the prizes that their wines won. I bought a couple of bottles recently.

It was like nothing I'd ever tasted before.

Or am likely to again.