Contract trade emulsion. If so which one?

[jocelyn plummer]

In relation to the use of casein disptemper, and indeed any other wall coverings you might find a discussion with Rose of Jericho very useful

http://www.rose-of-jericho.demon.co.uk
tel: 0193583676

Their technical department are extremely helpful

 

[Sonyaclegg]

The only slight drawback for Jonmatt is they won't mix very dark colours. I didn't ask why as my colours are mostly pale neutrals. Must be to do with the pigmentation. The kitchen is being painted tomorrow so I will post some pictures. In terms of the finish, I tested Jonmatt against Farrow and Ball and there was no difference.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

You might also want to look into Annie Sloan Chalk Paint. Suitable for almost any surface and breathable. I'm using it to do a bit of up cycling of furniture and its fabulous stuff.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I quite like the Annie Sloan chalk paint. Big thumbs up also for Rose of Jericho casein distemper that will go over a variety of surfaces without difficulty, remaining breathable with good rich natural pigmentation. - the only drawback being the unpredictability of the colour when you hold it against their hand painted test chart. In fairness to RofJ they say buy a tester pot as one batch differs so much from the next. I bought Eau de Nil and it's more like Arsenic. It has faded though.

I still think the best range of colours is FnB, if you want imprecision and subtlety, and I don't really believe in matching services, I tried to find a precise match by Dulux to some of their colours and it was impossible. Admittedly this was for a particularly difficult shade of red.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I have found little green better than F & B for colours. I wanted a really strong green for my windows and used Bruswick green from Little Green and I couldn't find anything comparable from F & B who don't seem to make such strong colours it seems to me. It is also cheaper than F & B. However I am talking about oil eggshell for wood, so it is probably not relevant to this topic.

 

[Penners]

Good or bad colour is, of course, a completely subjective matter. One person's "mmmmmmm" is another's "yuck!".

De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I suppose I must qualify my statement by saying that I have found that Little Green offers a wider range of colours not necessarily better colours.

 

[JoceAndChris]

164 colours in Little Greene, 132 on FnB's website but you can get all the discontinued colours so there's probably not a lot of difference.

Except I can't find a good dark John Fowler style peach on the Little Greene, and I'm looking for the perfect shade of that for the living room. I guess you always have to shop around for the one you have in your mind's eye.

I think the FnB colours look dirtier which I prefer. Comparing the colour charts, they're really really different with a lot of lovely bright shades on the Little Greene! Between the two of them, there's a massive range of period colours, we're spoilt for choice with paint.

 

[michael]

I think Little Green emulsion is acrylic so no good for me. It won’t let the currently breathable parts of my property breath. Annie Sloane chalk paints only appear to be in 1 litre tins. I think I would need about 200 tins and a new mortgage for that option. Jonmatt seems to be the only feasible solution so far but I need to know what the binder is. Casean distemper might be a solution but suppliers such as R of J are miles away from me so delivery costs might scuttle the cost effective solution that I’m looking for and I’m still not convinced it would stick to or even stay on my multitude of surfaces (paint rubbing of on your clothes I suspect).
I’m beginning to think that simple wishy-washy non plastic cheap and readily available breathable emulsion is just something I saw in a dream.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh dear, it does sound like you need a good bulk price. Rose of Jericho casein distemper doesn't rub off on clothes, really really promise you that and Skier Hughes has used it throughout. We've got it in a little damp bathroom with two exterior walls, over a multitude of finishes, and it's never flaked off or brushed off on clothes. But it's £43, as I recall, for 5L and the delivery is extortionate.

Little Greene do a distemper but from their description it doesn't sound like casein

http://www.littlegreene.com/paint/finish/distemper

Farrow and Ball do soft distemper and casein distemper, and I like the cost effectiveness of them as I use my Sainsbury's nectar points up in Homebase so the paint feels free.

http://www.farrow-ball.com/interior-walls-ceilings/content/fcp-content

Jonmatt sounds good, but they don't say what it's made of which makes me suspicious.

 

[Keithj]

I'm following this discussion with interest because we're working on a plan for reordering and redecoration of the church later this year. It's in the "essential repairs" stage at the moment, and our friendly builder is stripping off the Dulux that was put on below the window line a few years ago for a "posh" wedding, and which is now flaking and crazing badly. He's also removing the concrete that was used to patch the gaps where the lime had given way, and most of the lime in the side aisle too, preparatory to fresh lime render.

His advice was "don't limewash, because it comes off on your clothes when you lean on the wall." He favours Classidur, which he's put in a few churches over the years. He reckons it's breatheable: there are certainly no problems with it on lime render in several churches that we've visited recently as part of the "idea collection" process. He also advises that it has the big plus that when it looks a little grubby on those angled bits where the dust collects, then it can be wiped down and will come clean without the need to repaint (not repent).

Has anyone had long-term experience of Classidur on lime render? The oldest we've come across is in Wickham Market, where it still looks excellent after five to ten years (they spent a long time on their project).

 

[michael]

Penners. Referring back to page 1, and your comments on Classidur, you said that
“It’s binder is a polymerised resin - not unusual”
Do you know if paints with this type of binder are considered breathable as Kiethj’s builder suggests with Classidur?

The ‘Sovereign contract emulsion’ as mentioned in MdB’s list of paint manufactures and binders on page 1of this topic has a ‘Va/VeoVa Co polymer’ binder whatever that is, and I wonder if that has any similarity to a ‘polymerised resin’ binder as in Clasidur. The Sovereign emulsion also claims to be breathable i.e. “ Particularly suitable for new plaster where moisture is still present”
http://www.sovchem.co.uk/paints-surface-coatings/decorative-paints/trade-emulsion-matt.html

I’m no chemist but I don’t think polymers have to be oil based. Do they?
So, Polymer, Co-polymer, Polymerised binders – Better, worse, or just as bad as Vinyl or Acrylic. Any thoughts?

 

[MdB]

Put a small amount of polymer in a paint and it can be still breathable. Put a large amount in and it won't be. The question is how much has been put into the trade emulsions / Classidur paints and how breathable they actually are?

Now the trade emulsions suitable for putting onto wet plaster must be fairly breathable as otherwise they wouldn't be able to let the moisture out. If they are as good as limewash though I doubt but maybe good enough. I don't know and it is difficult to find out.

 

[Penners]

I defer gratefully to MdB on this topic, as his knowledge is considerably greater than mine.

 

[MdB]

as his knowledge is considerably greater than mine.

I don't know and it is difficult to find out.

:roll:

 

[Penners]

I don't know and it is difficult to find out.

But I bet I don't know even more than you don't know. :wink:

 

[Keith Bowman]

I don't know and it is difficult to find out.

But I bet I don't know even more than you don't know. :wink:

Cue Donald Rumsfeld and unknown unknowns!

 

[michael]

Not as breathable as limewash perhaps but maybe as good as clay paint? I suppose it also depends on the finished texture you’re looking for, but at half the price of clay paint and a tenth of the price of Classidur, who could complain? It’s also easy to obtain, easy to apply and adheres to almost every surface. For large areas such as halls or churches with multi material surfaces where limewash is no longer suitable, perhaps this is the most economical and yet responsible solution?

 

[AMc]

I used Little Greene's casin distemper on my vinery walls - mostly bare brick but some plaster and skimmed plasterboard.
It goes on OK but is much thinner than a normal emulsion. Once on it doesn't come off on your clothes and seems to have been pretty durable (applied in 2009)
http://www.littlegreene.eu/paint/finish/distemper?dir=asc&limit=all&order=name

 

[michael]

The ‘Little Green’ Distemper seems to be a bit dearer than the Earthborn Clay paints although there’s not a lot difference in the price. The Little Green website is showing 5Ltrs of their plain white distemper at £56.00. I think Earthborn clay paint is about £47.00 from my local stockist. I suspect there’s a delivery charge to add to the little Green product and if I order through a local stockiest then I’m sure it will be even more expensive so certainly not a cheap option when compared to the ‘contract trade emulsions’. I Suspect also that if the distemper is quite thin then it will probably require a lot more coats than the clay paint, so could work out very expensive in the long run in both paint and labour.I too have the inside of a church to paint.
Which do you think performs better, Casein Distemper or Clay Paint?