Contract trade emulsion. If so which one?

[michael]

Dose anybody have any experience with contract trade emulsion? I was advised some while back that this was a good cheap and breathable painting solution for internal walls. Apparently it’s often applied to freshly plastered walls in new builds as it allows the plaster to breathe and dry out.
In my case I have a large area of multi surfaces to cover i.e. lime plaster, modern gypsum plaster and previously emulsioned walls and I understand that limewash would not be suitable for all of these surfaces. I’ve used earthborn claypaints quite sucessfully on similar multi surfaces in the past but I need something a bit more cost effective for this next project and I’m guessing that contract trade might be the best all round solution.
My problem is which contract trade emulsion should I use? Here’s just a few that I found in my local paint store:-
Crown trade vinyl emulsion
Glidden trade contract matt
Dulux trade vinyl matt
Leyland trade vinyl matt

Admittadly only the Glidden paint has the word ‘contract’ in its description and I’m guessing this is the one I need. The other three,whilst all trade, have ‘vinyl’ in their descriptions which sounds unbreathable to me.
Any advice or recommended brands would be most welcome.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Vinyl emulsions are not breathable. I don't know about the other one.

 

[Flyfisher]

I don't know if "trade" has a specific meaning in terms of the formulation of an emulsion paint, though I suspect not.

I've heard of decorators applying a 'mist' coat of emulsion over newly plastered walls and this is usually a 'trade' emulsion diluted with 10% water to thin the paint and help it to penetrate the new plaster. This then acts as a 'primer' for subsequent paint applications. But I doubt that this is done with maintaining a breathable finish in mind.

As Nigel recommended above, I'd certainly avoid a vinyl emulsion in favour of a non-vinyl formulation, but the trick is to determine the formulation in the first place.

Most paint manufacturers provide a 'technical helpline' and I'd suggest calling them to discuss the problem. They should be able to confirm the formulation of any specific type of paint.

 

[MdB]

We use Macpherson Eclipse Trade Matt Emulsion. States on tub that it is suitable for painting onto wet plaster. I wouldn't go for anything with vinyl in it.

 

[Penners]

Same comment from me. Imagine a sheet of vinyl held over your mouth - that's how breathable it will be.

 

[plasticpigeon]

But if not vinyl, what is the binder? Acrylic? It is probably something plastic!

 

[MdB]

But if not vinyl, what is the binder? Acrylic? It is probably something plastic!

Well how about that lime stuff?!?

(Matt emulsion - non vinyl - is basically lime wash + titanium oxide + a few other things to stop it separating out. At least the one I looked up the ingredients of was.)

 

[Penners]

But if not vinyl, what is the binder?

Vinegar ester, sodium silicate, casein...?

 

[plasticpigeon]

I meant in contract emulsion, it may not be vinyl but I'm sure the binder will be some oil derived polymer that may also not be what people would call breathable or porous or whatever the magic property is!!!

 

[MdB]

Well let me put my embarrassed face on

Eclipse Emulsion has vinyl in it.... It doesn't mention it on the tub but it is on the data sheet.

Crown -> vinyl
Dulux -> vinyl / PVA / acrylic
Johnstones -> vinyl
Sovereign -> copolymer (could be vinyl, acrylic, PVA etc)
Leyland Flat Matt -> doesn't say
Glidden -> acrylic

And finally
Natural Building Technologies as sold by Mike Wye -> vinyl

Once upon a few years ago, I did look up the ingredients of trade matt emulsion to discover the main ingredient was lime. Which product that was, I can't remember but I do remember it not having any plastic in it. I can't find it now though and I might have remembered incorrectly.

I guess if you don't want plastic in your paint then you need to look at limewash, clay based, silicate based or distemper based paints. I would have thought though that the paints designed to go on wet plaster would have at least a fair degree of breathability.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

I think that there is a company called Potmolen-- trade I think, don't know any specifics about their products though.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

I'm using Contract Matt and Jonmatt from Johnstones. They mix any colour, it's breathable, and is going well on my walls which are drying out. You can apply to open an account with them and get 25 % discount. We have huge expanses to paint so the discount is very handy. I have tested all sorts of flat Matt and dead flat matts on the walls and also what I decided to use. The finish is very flat with good coverage

 

[Keithj]

We recently had a long discussion with an architect who has been involved in restoring listed churches round Suffolk. His comment was that the paint to use indoors, if you can afford it, is Classidur. The builder doing the work on ours says he knows the stuff, and although it's expensive to buy it's cheap to run because it wipes down well.

I'll let you know in about two years time!

 

[michael]

I looked at Classidure once, ‘Classidure Tradition’. Firstly the price put me off, I think it was about £222.00 per tin. Not sure if that was 5 or 10 ltrs. Secondly the description sounded more like a stain block paint covering smoke damaged walls etc. and thirdly, I’m not sure if its solvent-based polymerised resin binder is breathable?

Is this stuff any good or should I avoid it like the plague
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BREATHABLE-MATT-EMULSION-NEW-PLASTER-PAINT-5LTR-/170591783382

 

[Penners]

Your link leads to a 5-litre can of Leyland Super Leytex Breathable (they say!) Matt Emulsion. Not £222 a tin but £23.46!

However, the Classidur website does indeed offer a real bargain: 12.5 litres of their Tradition church paint for just £222.00. Oops! I forgot the VAT at £44.43. But the fantastic news is that you get free delivery!

There's no apparent explanation of why this paint costs £21 a litre. It's binder is a polymerised resin - not unusual - so perhaps it's mixed by monks, using holy water.

 

[michael]

Sorry for the confusion Penners. I’d actually written off the Classidure option some time back primarily because of the price but also for the other reasons I’ve given. The link as you say is for a much cheaper alternative paint which the manufactures claim is breathable but if, by the word Leytex they mean Latex then that doesn’t sound very breathable or microporus to me.
In all honesty if you have the variety of surfaces that I have to paint then what would you use? I started looking up casean distemper as another option and the F&B data sheet came up. It looks to me to be a very temperamental paint needing perfect surfaces and all other coatings removed. Bang goes the emulsioned parts of my walls then let alone the slightly powdery gypsum surfaces.
Is there really no honest to goodness cheap plastic free breathable-ish emulsion paint on the market? Do I really have to go down the relatively expensive claypaint option again?

 

[michael]

The Johnstones Jonmatt contract matt sounds interesting Sonyaclegg. Whats the binder in that. Is it relatively breathable and does it remain breathable once it’s fully dried? Also, is it cheaper than clay paint which round my way is about £47 (inc vat) for a 5 litre tin?

 

[plasticpigeon]

If you wipe water over a modern emulsion painted wall, the water doesn't run off it as it would a car bonnet, a raincoat or even a piece of wood. Some obviously gets absorbed as it goes a darker shade. My guess is that there is some amount or porosity. Does anyone know what the units of vapour permeability or capillarity are?? That way things could be defined and quantified.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Info

 

[plasticpigeon]

Maybe I should use this contract matt in my kitchen when I have lime plastered it. I was going to go for clay paint but why not this if it is cheaper!!!