conservation area

[miers]

Hi, a while ago I posted about barns and how to age them. Well we are in the middle of purchasing the barn (already converted) which has two cart sheds which are currently unconverted and open fronted. We want to put doors on these (appropriate ones of course!).

The barn is in a National Park and I was wondering if anyone else lived in a NP or conservation area and knew anything about what's "allowed"? Sorry if I sound thick, but it is very difficult to find information about this on the web in general!

Any information would be much appreciated!

miers

Incidentally, we have had our survey & in answer to my previous question, the barn dates from 1670 and it's belived there was a structure there during the 1400s

 

[Nemesis]

Is the barn listed? It might be that the sheds are listed as curtilage.

Your local authority and the NP might have policies about barns, there might have been a withdrawal of certain permitted development rights, Conservation Area status in itself shouldn't be too much of a problem if you can show that this would conserve and enhance, but really you need to speak to the local authority CO.

 

[miers]

hi there, no it isn't listed, and the area above the sheds has been converted already.

thanks for the info

miers

 

[Nemesis]

Are you wising to convert for further accommodation, or simply to use the sheds?

If the latter then I'd suggest setting the doors well back inside the openings so there is still a 'feel' of the openness. Traditional plank doors, paiinted a 'traditional 'colour, will help.

CADW has guidance on farm building conversions, as has EH, you might get some ideas from those. Both available on respective websites with a bit of searching.

 

[alice]

My house in Lowestoft is in an area that will soon be declared a conservation area (6-8 weeks). It took a bit of email tag, but by emailing everyone on the local council website and very politely asking them to pass on my email to the right person, I was able to find the person in charge of that sort of thing and ask him a few questions. (He's now in my address book and will never be rid me now...*evil laugh*).

There is a small pamphlet on my council's website about what we can do and can't do and he said there will be more published when the area is officially changed.

Since your area is already a conservation area, you might try your council's website and see what's there. If they don't have anything specific, start emailing everyone with a published address, briefly say you have conservation questions and ask them to forward your email to the CO who handles your park.

alice

 

[charlie-ia]

I hope im not causing trouble, (is this a split thread, or post hijacking, or some other misdemeanour?)
I am interested in what we are told is our "granary" - two story stone barn wtih a slope to the top door, 100years old& irish. all the ones i can find are as ruined as ours, or converted. would the upstairs the floor have been some kind of specially ventilated thing? I looked at cadw; does anyone know where i can find out more?
thankyou!

 

[Nemesis]

A bank barn? Does the slope give access to the upper storey?

It was probably used for threshing.



Historic Farm Buildings Group:

http://www.hfbg.org.uk/


http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/cnwrs/papers%20on%20the%20web/arch%20forum%20synopsis%202004.doc


The Bank Barn Story - R W Brunskill

The Bank Barn is a type of farm building which is found in abundance in Cumbria but in few other parts of Great Britain. The Bank Barn consists of a conventional threshing barn at an upper level and accommodation for horses and cattle below. The Barn is usually set into a slope, the upper level being reached by way of a ramp from the fields and the lower level opening onto a farmyard. Examples are to be found throughout Cumbria except for the Solway Plain and distribution extends into adjacent parts of western Yorkshire and northern Lancashire. A few examples have been found in the Lochaber district of Scotland; one or two have been found in Wales; otherwise the only other substantial number is in Cornwall and Devon.

Comparable buildings include the Pennsylvania Forebay Barn which spread from its Pennsylvania heartland to much of the United States and Canada, barns in the south-eastern part of Switzerland, somewhat similar buildings in mountainous lands around the Baltic and, in large numbers, in Norway. Except for migration of the building type from Switzerland to Pennsylvania and a possible link between Cumbria and that state development in other regions seems to have been independent.

 

[charlie-ia]

marvelous! a bank barn eh?
that describes it exactly. there's still the stalls for the cows downstairs, and they didnt even clean up before they left!
lovely slope (begging to be planted with herbs) to the upstairs with traditional crunchy pigeons. the roof has been replaced, but seems to be the origonal slates.
the floor is invisible under the muck and is completely rotten. (good job my bloke has a beard to grab onto or he'dv been a gonner! :lol: )

is this more special than I thought then? Im off to look for pictures now i know what to call it! Thanks!

 

[charlie-ia]

it looks more like this...

-than any pictures i found for "bank barn".
imagine the land has been levelled where the photographer is standing. you could wheel a barrow quite easily up to the door, and the hillside slopes away (like the wall on the picture) to allow the rooms underneath.

i noticed on the images i found that most the barns were built parallel to the hill, and ours is end on. is it a bank barn?

 

[charlie-ia]

sorry Miers, i just come barging in and getting exited, with no thought of you!

we live in a Conservation Area at the moment, and as long as we dont change anything nobody minds.

doors etc are to be repainted in the same colours, but what to use is up to us, as its the look of the area they are trying to conserve, rather than anything specific. theyre more bothered if we chop down a hedge than use polyurethane.

the back of the terrace could be anywhere, with a jumble of 70's extensions and upvc. so as long as it cant be seen from the road theres only the usual restrictions.

the conservation officer seemed pretty relaxed about the whole conservation area idea, and said if it was a conserved Building the rules are much stricter.
just dont change anything without asking. like for like is fine. if in doubt phone them first.

in our case it only applys to the exterior of the house. the insides are ours to do with as we wish.

Finding our conservation officer couldnt have been easier. i phoned the heritage department of the district council. its him that answers the phone. the tree protection officer has the desk next door to him. organised how things should be.
hope this helps.

 

[Nemesis]

The basics:

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1062

PPG15:

http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1144040

Add to that any policies your local authority has for farm buildings, see if there is an Article 4, add in any further restrictions imposed by the National Park status.

Conservation Areas are a bit of a minefield, with a great deal of case law and conservation sound practice to consider.

Don't think that if it isn't seen from the front it's OK - it might not be.

The Conservation Officer should be part of the Planning Dept - but some local authorities don't have one.

 

[charlie-ia]

sorry nemesis, do you know anything more about bankbarns? I'm having trouble finding anything out.

this page makes them sound very run of the mill,

http://www.discoveryprogramme.ie/controller?action=browsemon&id=134021&gid=48&offset=0&mode=narav&marker=0

whereas your link makes it sound like a marvel.

just in general terms how do you know if something is important, if your house isnt listed?
I havent given our granary much of a thought, as the work on the house is enough to consider for now. im just assuming that its a house that needs mending, but nothing special. I dont like to make assumptions, but i have nothing else to go on as this is uncharted territory for me. what if for example, what we think is a window like everyone elses, is actually a prime example of a rare victorian thingumybob?
how do you know when to just get on with it (replacing like with like where practical), or when to call the museum?

 

[Nemesis]

Bank barns aren't that rare really, it simply means on a basic level a barn built into a bank of some sort which allows access to the uppers floor.

They are more prevalent in the north.

As to rarity - well, go cautiously. Unless listed of course (or certain features of a conservation area) then no-one really will get terribly excited I'm afraid. You could call the local authority conservation officer and ask.

In general, try to get a feel for what's appropriate for a period building, plenty of useful books on how to repair.

 

[NT]

what if for example, what we think is a window like everyone elses, is actually a prime example of a rare victorian thingumybob?
how do you know when to just get on with it (replacing like with like where practical), or when to call the museum?

post detailed pics here before starting the project.

NT

 

[Nemesis]

If you want to conserve what you have then that's about the right approach. I would suggest that reading up on right approaches and joining SPAB is always a good move. Plenty of useful books to buy via this site.

 

[skier-hughes]

Going back to the original question, adn not sure if this applies, but in our old house we wanted to put some doors on our carport, but was told that it would be a change of use and needed planning permission.
Whilst it was open it was one thing, but as soon as doors were put on it, regardless of the fact that all one long side was like lattice, it would become an enlosed space, eg a garage for which PP was needed.

The house wasn't listed or in a conservation area, but I'm thinking that the same may apply to your open barns.

Graham

 

[Nemesis]

Yes, there may well be other restrictions which apply and a change of use required - all manner of things. I restricted myself to the point the CA status in itself might not mean doors wouldn't be allowed, but all depends on a number of other factors.

 

[miers]

Hi all, thanks for the information, it is all helpful. Our NP have just appointed a conservation officer, so I will contact them and get some information.

I'll post if back on here in case anyone else needs to know.

By the way the newer part of the barn is a little like a bank barn charlie-ia, so no need to apologise as it wasn't really hijacking!