Common Law of Business Balance...

[Toby Newell]

What are your thoughts on Oak furnitureland Toby? same sort of clever marketing aimed at the masses and oak from the far east?

My thoughts? You have read them already. I cringe when the guy on the advert knocks on the furniture. I hear another oak tree falling! And 'clever' is an insult to the word clever, it's just marketing, unfortunately they don't need to try very hard. Some people seem to think that because something is 'solid oak' that somehow makes it a quality item without actually looking at how awful it looks or is made. It's a bit like chicken breasts. Remember in the 1970's chicken breasts! What luxury! Who could afford just the breast!? My family could not. Now look at them, you can get a lovely juicy battery farmed one for 50p! Hooray! Chicken breasts for all! It's a chicken breast, it must be good quality. Making previously high quality and highly regarded items, food, goods and services more widely available by reducing the overall median standard to 'crap'. This is progress? I always thought the arrow of human progress should be defined, in general as having a positive slope.

Capitalism isn't broken. People are. Stock markets were not originally designed to sell short, pillage viable businesses, repress workers and funnel wealth to those who least need it, they were designed, to facilitate commerce and innovation.

Hardwood furniture should be made from high quality, slow grown timber, it should well designed, well made and built to last a hundred years or more, it should be expensive and not mass produced. Instead of discarding it at a tip after 15 years or whenever one is bored with it, it should be passed on to family, friends or sold for decent sums to fund the purchase of new high quality timber.

I suppose the same could be said of any man made product. Cleaning out yoghurt pots and building wind turbines will not save humanity, producing less of higher quality will, only with wood products the connection is more evocative and immediate.

Besides the quality of the timber is awful, it looks discoloured, mismatched with lots of sapwood and hardly any quarter grain. Same goes with the majority of cheap oak flooring, I cannot see much difference between that and laminate. Personally I would much prefer a painted item unless of high quality timber, a painted item made from a sustainable wood source made to a minimum standard, that would last.

And yes, the generations type flooring suits certain types, the rich with more money than taste comes to mind.

 

[Toby Newell]

A 'front' in what sense? One invented primarily to generate business or one that businesses exploit to generate business?

The latter is surely entirely understandable (free-market, entrepreneurial capitalism and all that) but it doesn't necessarily infer the former.

I do not conspire to conspiracy theories, if one reads wikileaks, the quality press and does a bit of research one does not need to.

The latter, of course. And not exclusively. There are of course a small number of earnest well meaning people in business who wish to make a difference but overwhelmingly they comply (when enforced) with the minimum government regulations and tout their minimal efforts in highly sophisticated green marketing.

Obviously big business did not artificially engineer the global warming issue, it just happened, it is just that they are now exploiting it rather than taking the required steps to tackle it. That is not to say that good things have not happened, they have. It is just that it is too little. Much too little and frequently it is being used to increase sales by massaging peoples consciences. The Toyota Prius et al may be integral iterative steps to producing truly efficient hydrogen fuel cell electric hybrid vehicles of the future but the fact is, as of now, they are appallingly bad for the environment. Jeremy Clarkson may be a loud mouthed Tory arse with whom I have little in common apart from an interest in engineering and the ability to call people out but he's right on this issue. Current electric cars are incredibly bad for the environment but they are touted, misleadingly as being 'zero emissions'. That is appalling.

I wouldn't mind if everyone was honest. Fact is anyone with a brain knows that the free market fundamental of increasing the volume of goods and services increases the rate of energy and material consumption. Compound that with the increase in world population and the only conclusion is, no matter how efficient we may become, in the future, maybe hundreds of years from now, the only way the human race will survive without mass famine and disaster is through reducing per capita consumption,by making less of higher quality and selling it for greater unit cost. You know, like we used to. It's not a new concept.

But why worry about that now right?

I seem to recall that people used to actually take a bag out with them shopping, shocker! Are we really patting ourselves on the back for badly implementing something we already did 100 years ago? Why is the charge 5 pence? Why not make it a pound? Very few would forget their bags then. The lack of ambition is breathtaking.

We went from the Lancaster to the Vulcan in a little over five years, at the same time we designed to go to the moon, we have unravelled the secrets of DNA yet faced with the biggest existential threat to mankind since we started to walk upright the only outwardly noticeable environmental legislation affecting the majority of the country is to make plastic bags cost 5p. *thumbs up*

 

[Toby Newell]

Talking of grain filling, I have an old wind out extendable dining table, and I would like to refinish the top of it as it has been varnished over with some kind of polyeurethane or similar. The centre section is nice and untouched but the 2 outer sections are darker and have a poor surface finish. The table is oak and the colour quite pale for old furniture, and it seems to have been grain filled with something black. Do you know what was used or what I should use for grain filling if I was to refinish in the future please.

Firstly I would strip everything so it matches unless you are confident at colouring.
Secondly you can buy a modern grain filler from someone like Morrells in many different colours, you need to choose a colour slightly darker than your finish colour.
If you wanted to be traditional you could indeed use plaster of Paris mixed with a pigment and / or water dye which gives a similar effect, the main difference being after a few years (quite a long time really) of sun bleaching the colour breaks down in the plaster of Paris leaving the 'white in the grain' effect you can sometimes see on older period furniture and highly finished architectural items like panels and handrails. The newer 'nitro filler' are more light fast and should not suffer from white in the grain.

 

[Flyfisher]

A 'front' in what sense? One invented primarily to generate business or one that businesses exploit to generate business?

The latter is surely entirely understandable (free-market, entrepreneurial capitalism and all that) but it doesn't necessarily infer the former.

The latter, of course. . . . .

I won't derail the thread by continuing that particular discussion, except to say we're in basic agreement.

 

[Toby Newell]

@Flyfisher. I am sure we are!

The gentleman in the OP just got back to me and apologised albeit briefly, so it's only fair to mention that.

Apparently the contractors remedy for the peeling lacquer, peeling floor boards and general destruction of their inappropriate installation is to fit 'wood slivers'.

I wonder what would happen if you decided to hammer and glue wedges into a compromised and moving floor tying everything together?

I mean I wonder in what magnificently spectacular way would the floor, starved of micro movement, decide to release it's pent up forces?

Tenting? Boards pinging off? One inch rafting shrinkage gaps?

*Gets popcorn*

Apparently he has another two bars and floors to discuss with me. *lightbulb* must enquire about surveyors courses. I appear to do more unpaid consultancy, for free, than actual physical work. Anyone advise me on possible routes into surveying?

 

[Flyfisher]

Try some unabashed paid-for consulting? After all, he should now know the value of getting things right first time! Maybe offer to refund your consultancy fee if he awards you a contract instead of just taking your advice and passing it on to his own people? Remind him that free advice is worth every penny?

But I'm sure you've already thought of such things. I can sense your frustration

 

[Toby Newell]

Try some unabashed paid-for consulting? After all, he should now know the value of getting things right first time! Maybe offer to refund your consultancy fee if he awards you a contract instead of just taking your advice and passing it on to his own people? Remind him that free advice is worth every penny?

But I'm sure you've already thought of such things. I can sense your frustration

I have already given him advice. I can charge a small fee for a site visit and survey but most people are not interested as I am unqualified. I am basically a man with some knowledge and so they get their consultancy for free, I think if I want to charge for my advice I would need to be officially qualified to do so. It's all politics!

I have given tens of £thousands worth of free advice over the years often agreed by architects and surveyors etc of multi £million projects but I don't really count as in effect I am just a very experienced lay person.

I think what matters most is being a qualified professional, then clients can take my advice and proposals and offer them with confidence to contractors, builders etc or use my reports in court. Even though many people have taken my advice including on projects at the V&A etc and top period architects like Carden and Godfrey etc most people will not because who am I? If I were professionally qualified it would open the door for people to listen as it is I am just a lay person, albeit with some very rare specialised knowledge. I think surveying will have to be my next career move.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Firstly I would strip everything so it matches unless you are confident at colouring.
Secondly you can buy a modern grain filler from someone like Morrells in many different colours, you need to choose a colour slightly darker than your finish colour.
If you wanted to be traditional you could indeed use plaster of Paris mixed with a pigment and / or water dye which gives a similar effect, the main difference being after a few years (quite a long time really) of sun bleaching the colour breaks down in the plaster of Paris leaving the 'white in the grain' effect you can sometimes see on older period furniture and highly finished architectural items like panels and handrails. The newer 'nitro filler' are more light fast and should not suffer from white in the grain.

Thanks for the advise, I shall try the modern "nitro filler" when I get round to it. I have used woodstain in the past that was based I believe on naptha or some solvent. I bought a can of stain the other day made by colron. It seemed gloopy and paint like. I wasn't staining much, and it seemed to do a good enough job, but I wasn't interested in the finish, more th colour. Are these newer low VOC stains as good as the high VOC ones do you think please? I hope you don't mind me asking you to share your wisdom, as I am not a commercial business, just someone wanting to do up a table and the help is always much appreciated!!!

 

[livias]

Toby I can appreciate your frustration and I know several people with rare skills and no paper to back it up who got fed up of being taken for granted. They took an MA in Conservation which also appears to be suitable qualifications to allow you to start charging proper money. Just another suggestion ...

 

[agbagb]

Toby, Just send me £200 a year to join the Institute of Wood Flooring Surveyors. I'll send you an impressive looking logo to use on your business cards and a long, vague, caveat filled report to cover all surveys, just delete the most inappropriate paragraphs.

 

[steveb]

Alternatively, for only 150 quid, payable to me, you can join the Wood Flooring Surveyors Institute...

 

[Toby Newell]

Redacted

 

[Toby Newell]

Toby, Just send me £200 a year to join the Institute of Wood Flooring Surveyors. I'll send you an impressive looking logo to use on your business cards and a long, vague, caveat filled report to cover all surveys, just delete the most inappropriate paragraphs.

Very droll. Been there, done that. My "Guild of Master Craftsmen" logo looked lovely on my Kit box bungeed to the back of my motorbike as I rode into The Palace of Westminster... the only thing it signified is that I had £200 quid and had three friends, sorry, 'customers' who could vouch for my work.

I did work as an unqualified surveyor for 9 months for a customer! And my next but one job is for a reasonably successful and very nice QS in Cumbria where I shall be staying for a few weeks, so maybe I will pick his brain for ideas.

 

[Toby Newell]

Alternatively, for only 150 quid, payable to me, you can join the Wood Flooring Surveyors Institute...

It's getting cheaper?

I'm holding out for £100.

 

[steveb]

Ah, that'll be the "Wooden Floor Surveying Institution" that you want then

Splitters

 

[plasticpigeon]

I don't think you can get rich doing something you love unless what you love is making money. You can only get rich doing what makes economic sense, and that pretty much never involves doing the best job.

I agree with you about university education Toby. I studied for a PhD but quit as it was going nowhere. People ask me all the time why I didn't finish, and I try to explain that I had an offer to do paid work that was more interesting, more challenging and more innovative (which I didn't negoitiate terms for particularly well, as I was too busy doing engineering and knew little about business). To many people this doesn't make any sense, as getting a PhD is a qualification and is seen as a stepping stone to somewhere else, it is absolutely not a marker of knowledge, intelligence or competence. Some of the stupidest people I have met have PhDs.

 

[steveb]

That's a good point - sad but true. I have never met a rich craftsman. Possibly not even a "moderately well off" one. My guess is that throughout history, pretty much every craftsman has lived and died poor (although the things that they created may subsequently have become expensive, it did them no good at the time)

Pretty much everyone I have met that has been "rich" I wouldn't want anything to do with if I could avoid it.

Unfortunately we live in a throw-away world, where good workmanship and longevity are rarely valued. If it doesn't last, throw it away and get another. I don't expect it to last so there is no point in getting the job well done. short-term thinking is done at an almost entire population level.

I give the human race between 100 and 200 years before we wipe ourselves out and cockroaches regain their place as dominant species on earth, and all that will be left for a future intelligent species would be a thin, unexplainable layer of particularly dirty and radioactive soil when they dig into the cores of the earth.

sad, but probably true. the only thing I don't know is what will wipe us out...

 

[Toby Newell]

@steveb

I can't tell whether your comment is partially or wholly sardonic! There are a fair few well off craftsmen, those who manage to retain their integrity whilst marketing themselves exceptionally well and who maybe have a bit of luck and a bit of financial backing, there are a number of stunningly skilled bespoke furniture makers that spring to mind, it is just that it is so much easier to make the same or more money by having a lack of integrity for the majority of us who are maybe lacking their brilliance in some areas.

Throughout history at least there have been people who championed craft through design even if they did not directly execute it themselves, I am thinking of Mackintosh, Adam, Chippendale, di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni, da Vinci etc. (I know some of these were immensely skilled artisans but they made most of their money employing others to undertake their vision) Maybe that was only possible due to the patronage of the rich who choose to spend their wealth in alternate ways these days. I have had the 'fortune' of working for and meeting some of the country's richest people and despite my reverse snobbery have met several wonderful, kind and down to earth souls. There is a certain 'type' I have found whom I have almost universally found to be breathtakingly arrogant and offensive, sadly and rather stereotypically almost all from the law, banking and political professions.

But I agree, the fundamental overriding problem appears to be shortsightedness, selfishness and greed. It is such a shame really as if we collectively made a little more effort to think even slightly longer term we would probably find that once all those long term benefits have been taken into account doing things considerately with a little more care is not really any more expensive at all. In fact, it may even work out to be cheaper, in hard money terms as much as human terms.

 

[steveb]

There is a certain 'type' I have found whom I have almost universally found to be breathtakingly arrogant and offensive, sadly and rather stereotypically almost all from the law, banking and political professions.

yes, these are the types that I tend to bump into (and would add property developers to that same list). It gives me some comfort that you say that there is a "a better class of rich person" out there, even if I don't run into them

the fundamental overriding problem appears to be shortsightedness, selfishness and greed. It is such a shame really as if we collectively made a little more effort to think even slightly longer term we would probably find that once all those long term benefits have been taken into account doing things considerately with a little more care is not really any more expensive at all. In fact, it may even work out to be cheaper, in hard money terms as much as human terms.

I entirely agree - I am prepared pay well for a job well done, or for an item that will last, but I am in the minority - and not rich enough to make a difference to anyone who works for me, or anyone that I buy anything off

Also, we use a significant proportion of second hand or freecycled items - not because we are "poor" but because they do the job just as well - or even better, if they are old and built to last - and don't cause waste. I have a pair of Suffolk Punch lawnmowers from either late 1950s or early 60s that I use to cut the grass, they both work pretty much as well as the day they were made. All they need is a little routine maintenance, another skill that has been sacrificed in our throwaway society.

 

[DJH]

Toby...I have the T shirt and video as they say, in common with your experiences so much so that I refused to work for main contractors and undertook contracts myself as main contractor. I used to supply only to contractors mainly as I was lucky enough to be nominated by both architects and clients who directed that I was to be used by them. I also worked for very wealthy clients and some renowned architects with whom I had a good relationship and they took notice of any comments or advice I offered.

I made a comfortable living from both sheet and decorative leadwork but, despite all the years I spent learning the dark arts of decorative leadwork my business was bolstered by a contract I had for filling counterweights with lead which, to all intents and purposes was just donkey work melting tons of lead and pouring it into the weights

Doug