Chimney Relining

[spot]

Hi All,

We have a chimney which has failed the smoke test and needs relining as we still want to use it.
I believe there are a couple of different methods to reline (feel free to correct me), one is to stick a metal tube down the hole and the other uses some mechanism to spray some ceramic stuff around the inside filling up any holes.
What are the pros and cons of the different methods and has anyone had this work done in the West Midlands and can recommend a company?
What's a ballpark cost for this kind of work?

Many thanks!

 

[DaveBrigg]

The metal tube (liner) may be the easiest option. No solution is cheap (the metal flues have to be a particular quality of steel to reduce corrosion), but the price will be affected by your particular house. Can the chimney pot be safely reached with a ladder, or will it need complex scaffolding? What is the length of flue required?
There are other recent posts here on the same topic, so a search for 'flue' may bring some good advice.

There is an informative website here http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/lining_a_chimney.html where you can also cost up materials for a DIY job. (Other flue lining suppliers are available, possible at a lower cost)

 

[Ian Bond]

I'm currently restoring a stone fireplace and fitting a multifuel stove.

I'm going to fit a flexible stainless steel flue liner with a rockwool insulation sleeve.

It's a reversible solution, unlike the spray on stuff. My flues have a large cross section, so the rockwool sleeves seem to be to be the easiest and least messy way of installing the insulation.

 

[Penners]

We have a chimney which has failed the smoke test and needs relining as we still want to use it.

What do you want to use it for? Will you be using a stove, or will you have an open fire?

If it's the latter, then be careful about installing a metal liner. If you install a round liner of the largest size that will fit the flue, you'll still be losing something like 20% or more of your flue sectional area. And if the liner is too narrow you can get serious smoke problems in the room.

So the size of liner that you can fit into your flue is critical. Before you spend any money, I suggest that you should consult a HETAS expert to make sure you get this right. Many chimney sweeps are HETAS registered, and you'll need to get the chimney swept before you install a liner anyway. So you could have a chat with the guy while he's doing the job.

One final thing - whether you have a stove or an open fire, if you do install a liner, make sure you fill the void between the liner and the chimney wall with insulation material (vermiculite is often used). This reduces condensation and extends the life of the liner.

 

[skier-hughes]

I'm going to fit a flexible stainless steel flue liner with a rockwool insulation sleeve.

This is what I've done to two chimney's.

 

[biffvernon]

Where is the anti-flue-liner campaign - the fight for the right to keep traditional flues and stick a bit of cow-muck on the brick?

 

[Penners]

The problem isn't a shortage of cow-muck. It's the shortage of nine-year-old boys, willing to squeeze up inside the chimney to apply it.

 

[skier-hughes]

No, the problem is not the shortage of nine year olds to go up the chimney, but the ever incresing height of nine year olds and obesity, such that now your average 3 year old is the right size for chimney work, but unfortunately they are so well educated that even they demand a fair wage for a fair days work...............

 

[Ian Bond]

The reason I'm lining the chimney flue is so I can fit a stove, to give more efficient heating than an open coal / wood fire. (I intend to use the stove for wood burning, rather than coal).

Surely you're not advocating us wasting fuel on inefficient open fires?!

The remaining open fireplaces will be decorative only. Even though we're in coal country, and have a relatively late house (1830s) the fireplaces have 4x4 foot openings, and the flues have large cross sections. The stove would not heat the flues to the same extent as an open fire, allowing flue gases to condense more readily leading to problems with tar deposits, hence the need for the insulated flue liner.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Surely you're not advocating us wasting fuel on inefficient open fires?!

I thought burning wood was essentially carbon-neutral?* Although you're right, you do send less heat up the chimney with a stove. There is something incredibly primeval and romantic about an open fire though.

* provided it is chopped down by hand, split by hand and transported by hand. My chainsaw cut, electrically split logs come a few hundred yards in the Landrover so will have a small carbon footprint. Far better than driving to the garage for a bag of expensive coal from hundreds of miles away though!

 

[Ian Bond]

It would be much easier and cheaper for me to go with the open fire, but I've been persuaded by the eco-friendly argument that it's better to fit a stove and use the fuel to heat the room, rather than sending the bulk of the heat up the chimney.

The decision for me is slightly easier because the original grate is long gone, so I'm not contemplating replacing anything original.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

But that's my point - I'm not sure there is an eco-friendly issue (or a small one if there is) if you are burning wood in an open fire. It's inefficient, but provided your wood hasn't travelled hundreds of miles via a coal burning steam engine or similar, then that inefficiency is not an issue in the way that fossil-fuel based energy would be. It will of course cost you more than necessary in either money to buy your logs or time to cut and split them.

 

[Ian Bond]

It's still wasteful though, and that is the point that has been made on this forum in the past, regardless of whether or not the fuel is carbon neutral.

And in some situations you may need to line the chimney - if the flue is leaking and cannot be economically repaired any other way.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Agreed.

 

[spot]

Hi All, thanks for the replies.
FYI - It's an open fire and i plan to mainly be burning wood (as I have tons of it).
I'm going to give these people a shout - http://www.landyvent.co.uk/en/ - as they're local to me and see what their ceramic solution looks like.
I like the sound of it because unlike a metal liner it won't reduce the surface area of the chimney so much.
Anybody used these people or anyone offering a similar solution before?

 

[AMc]

Wood is 'carbon neutral' but burning it still releases carbon dioxide that has been sequestered when growing the tree over many years. If you burn more than you need to then you're increasing your impact on the environment. If you leave the carbon stored as wood or pass it along to heat someone else's house then there is a reduction in emissions which has to be a good thing IMHO.

FWIW my issue with open fires has more to do with their efficiency at removing centrally heated air when they're not lit than their relative performance when lit. You can mitigate this with a chimney balloon but through the 'fire' season I wouldn't get around to inflating the balloon every Monday morning and removing it on Friday night. You'll also lose central heat in the time between the fire dying overnight and fitting the balloon in the morning.

Our ancient stove in the front room is pretty good but the room got SUBSTANTIALLY warmer when we put a register plate inside closing up a 1m x 50cm opening at the bottom. The flue was already lined with a solid metal pipe which was sealed into the pot at the top. Although the chimney was sealed except for the stove flue a lot of heat was going up and being lost presumably into the roof space. I was having all sorts of other problems with the central heating but we gained a 1-2C difference in room temperature with the same temperature of underfloor heating.

If I were the OP I would fit a stove with a register plate and a liner insulated with vermiculite YMMV.

 

[Penners]

I've been persuaded by the eco-friendly argument that it's better to fit a stove and use the fuel to heat the room, rather than sending the bulk of the heat up the chimney.

Hmmm - that's a moot point.

A stove will increase the efficiency with which you burn the wood, but it certainly won't eliminate the wasted heat going up the chimney - only reduce it. And of course there's a substantial carbon footprint to the business of manufacturing and fitting the stove.

I wonder how long you have to use the stove before the equation balances, then tips in its favour.

 

[Penners]

If you leave the carbon stored as wood or pass it along to heat someone else's house then there is a reduction in emissions which has to be a good thing.

I'm not sure I completely agree. If you leave the carbon stored as wood you will slow down the carbon emissions, but the wood will still rot away sooner or later and give its carbon back to the atmosphere, just as it does when burnt.

 

[Ian Bond]

I'd prefer an open fire instead of a stove, it would be cheaper for me to install for a start. If I had an original grate I certainly wouldn't rip it out to fit a stove.

However, a good case has been made on PPUK for fitting stoves in preference to open fires whenever the subject crops up. At least that's the impression I've got over the years.

A large fireplace opening and flue will be contributing to a significant rate of air change in the house. I'd have thought that fitting a stove and closing the flue with a register plate would moderate the rate of air exchange and associated heat loss?

 

[Ian Bond]

I've been persuaded by the eco-friendly argument that it's better to fit a stove and use the fuel to heat the room, rather than sending the bulk of the heat up the chimney.

Hmmm - that's a moot point.

A stove will increase the efficiency with which you burn the wood, but it certainly won't eliminate the wasted heat going up the chimney - only reduce it. And of course there's a substantial carbon footprint to the business of manufacturing and fitting the stove.

I wonder how long you have to use the stove before the equation balances, then tips in its favour.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that a stove will eliminate wasted heat going up the chimney.

If you've got a free and ready supply of fuel from your own woodland, then perhaps the waste is not such a problem. What concerns me most is the thought of having to buy fuel, and losing a certain amount of money up the chimney. And not just wasting wood, but whatever is fuelling your central heating, if you're fortunate enough to have such a luxury.