Chimney not attached

[Lime]

If you strap the chimney to the house and the chimney falls down it will take the house down with it.
There is nothing wrong with the chimney.
It was built separately.
just because it doesn't fit with convention doesn't mean it is wrong.

 

[skier-hughes]

I don't see how the chimney falling down will bring the house down if strapped. If you feel that will happen then surely the house needs work doing on it to ensure it is stable enough.

"And also some rotten wood with nails pointing in towards the house, which were down there too." Was this not their means of attahing it to the house? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick to how you are describing this?

 

[Zebra]

"And also some rotten wood with nails pointing in towards the house, which were down there too." Was this not their means of attahing it to the house? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick to how you are describing this?

Sorry if I'm not describing this all very well. The bit of rotten timber I pulled out was low down, at the flat roof height. It looks as if it was nailed to the house before the chimney was built, giving credence to Robgil's suggestion that the chimney may have been built later, but it wasn't strong enough attach the two.
Looking again at the fireplace, it's hard to tell whether the brickwork was done at different times. It all seems to tie in together, but then, they may have rebuilt that wall when they built the chimney, hard to say.
I have to say I'm tending towards the if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it side of this argument, sorry Skier-Hughes. If I'd need to strengthen the house just so that I can strap the chimney to it in case the chimney falls down, when in fact neither is in danger of falling down, then to my inexpert view it seems unnecessary.
Thanks all for your views!

 

[skier-hughes]

No need to say sorry, just giving a balancing view point. I'm currently arguing why a poll our parishioners are being asked to complete is worded,
Brickworks Site Hobnock Road... In the event of 2 applications being submitted 1 being for storage & logistic B8 use 1 for housing. Is housing your preference YES or NO.”

Apart from all the other scary bits they've put in that it will mean massive buildings for the B8 use etc etc, when currently no applications have been put in and the B8 / B2 use currently being looked at is storage of bottom ash and won't need a 40 feet high 250,000 sq ft building

 

[CliffordPope]

Doesn't it depend which is stronger, the chimney or the house?
Supposing the chimney sways a tiny amount in a strong wind - what sort of movement at ridge height would be acceptable - 1/2"?, 1/4" ? Now imagine that the chimney is attached to the ridge. Is the ridge going to stop the chimney swaying, or is the chimney going to rock the ridge backwards and forwards?

 

[worms]

I'm currently arguing why a poll our parishioners are being asked to complete is worded...Is housing your preference YES or NO.”

Was the poll wording drafted by Alec Salmond?

 

[middi]

Your house has an hallmark of a 17th C timber frame, the exterior chimney was built ,about, late 18th early 19th C and the top half was rebuild with different bricks possibly in the early part of the 20th C.
The house has moved from left to right over the decades (or centuries) . The house will keep moving slowly if the wind braces have been cut ( usually to install new windows, doors, other openings etc). Your objective is to make sure the lateral movement support braces are there and in good condition to avoid any major future lateral movement.

I would not strap the house to the chimney, if the house needs to move ( as it will) I can assure you that the house will carry the chimney bricks with it !!!.
Leaving the gable timbers exposed may be romantic but not a very good idea, it wil need yearly maintenance in repairing and lime painting of the wattle and daub panels.
You also need to close that gap between the chimney and the house, it will become a water trap which will eventually rot the the tie beam.
I would not render the outside of the gable but I would use lap boards ( black or white) and at the same time insulate the exterior and also use a breatheablble membrane, if you use lap boards you can also make a shaped board infill cut to match the gap and sealed againt the chimney bricks.

Good luck

Middi

 

[Flyfisher]

I find it hard to imagine that a typical chimney has to deal with more wind-loading than an entire roof, so I would guess the chances of a roof pulling a chimney down would be far less than an unsupported chimney being blown down. And, as Skier points out, anyone worried about their roof being blown or pulled down really ought to be worrying about the state of their roof!

My limited experience is that chimneys tend to become unstable due to gradual weathering and decaying bricks and mortar. One of our chimneys was in a poor condition but even the strongest winds a few years ago only dislodged a couple of bricks (I've since had it rebuilt) and that extended above the ridge by about 5-6 feet.

Middi makes a good point about strapping a brick structure to a timber one. However, we also have a large external chimney stack that, although very old, was added onto the original timber frame building. Even though it is very substantial, it has a stabilising iron strap to one of the roof rafters.

The connection of the roof strap to the chimney band (not visible in the photo) is a sort of 'hook and eye' arrangement and thus allows a certain amount of movement. Whether this was by design or just for convenience in the days before nuts and bolts I don't know, but it seems to have stood the test of time in terms of any differential movement.

I'm quite happy to have the chimney supported this way and certainly don't lose any sleep worrying about the chimney pulling the roof down - more likely, I'd guess, is that the chimney would crumble around the iron band, if it was allowed to get into a really bad condition.

 

[Zebra]

Your house has an hallmark of a 17th C timber frame, the exterior chimney was built ,about, late 18th early 19th C and the top half was rebuild with different bricks possibly in the early part of the 20th C.
The house has moved from left to right over the decades (or centuries) . The house will keep moving slowly if the wind braces have been cut ( usually to install new windows, doors, other openings etc). Your objective is to make sure the lateral movement support braces are there and in good condition to avoid any major future lateral movement.
I would not strap the house to the chimney, if the house needs to move ( as it will) I can assure you that the house will carry the chimney with it!!
Leaving the gable timbers exposed may be romantic but not a very good idea, it wil need yearly maintenance in repairing and lime painting of the wattle and daub panels.
You also need to close that gap between the chimney and the house, it will become a water trap which will eventually rot the the tie beam.

Thanks for this middi, it's the most authoritative-sounding assessment I've had yet of the building's age.
I've done a lot of work lately to ensure the frame is in good nick, I've replaced any rotten or very wormy studs with new green oak (Penners' advice if I remember...) and put new screws in many of the joints, alongside the existing nails. All of the frame is still in place, apart from where the one window has clearly been enlarged, so I'm pretty confident it's as good in terms of lateral movement as it can be.
Cool, I won't strap the chimney then. Yep, plan is not to leave timbers exposed, romantic as it would be, they never were designed to be (it's mid-repair in this picture). Will insulate and close the gap to prevent water ingress. Thanks then!

 

[Zebra]

Actually, now I'm thinking about it, there is evidence that the fireplace has been enlarged, because you can see the ends of the old lintel underneath.
One day I'll take a hammer to that 1960s pine surround and see what the oak beam's like behind....

 

[LadyArowana]

Actually, now I'm thinking about it, there is evidence that the fireplace has been enlarged, because you can see the ends of the old lintel underneath.
One day I'll take a hammer to that 1960s pine surround and see what the oak beam's like behind..

I'm glad to see that Henry is having a nice relaxing day indoors!