Can I build a garage in Listed grounds ?

[Bayliss]

Hi, considering a purchase of a Grade 2 listed house, lovely old place but currently has no garage. The rear garden could very easily accommodate a large single garage and I would purchase a timber pitched roof 'kit garage' standing on a concrete plinth/floor. The size of the garage and ridge height falls within permitted reg's and would be considered to be a 'temporary building'. However, I understand the house being listed would include the grounds the house stands within, therefore would I require listed building planning permission? Advise greatly appreciated.

 

[El Greyo]

Hi Bayliss

You will need to apply for planning permission - not listed building consent - as the garage would be within the curtilage of a listed building even if it is a temporary structure.

I had to go through this to build a wooden 3m x 4m shed but permission was granted without any problems. They just wanted to make sure that the structure was not out-of-place and didn't create an adverse visual impact I think.

 

[Bayliss]

Thank you El Greyo, was hoping I might not need this P.P. as it is going to add significant costs, still so be it at least I now know. I can at least get the plans from the people who sell the garages.

 

[malcolm]

Can you get away with a normal wooden garage in the curtilage of a listed building? I want to build a garage in a conservation area but it seems to need to be built from the most expensive brick, tiles and guttering possible, not to mention the tree preservation rules and the archaeology required when you break the ground. Planning costs are nothing.

 

[Bayliss]

The house is itself timber frame / lath and plaster, to my mind a timber garage would be the sympathetic way to go. Having said that I expect the local planners will have their own ideas.

 

[malcolm]

Oak garages don't seem expensive (kits on eBay at least). That gives me an idea of building a big garage by stealth. I'm a car enthusiast and would really like a garage but every time I go through the costs it ends up north of £50K.

I suspect the planners would like to see clay or slate tiles, possibly handmade, and metal guttering which adds build cost and also adds the cost of beefing up the structure to support them. Shallow felt roof garages might not get through.

Be aware of archaeology and trees. A good couple of grand to get a tree report that says you can't build a garage within 9m of a tree, a couple of grand for an archaeology report (planning will require them), then another few grand to have the archaeologist stood there while you build foundations. Plus an undefinable number of grand if they actually find something.

I tend to be negative these days and I'm in a mood tonight (not a good one). Someone else who has actually managed to build a garage might be able to give better guidance.

 

[xanthe]

Having received the list of past PP and LBC applications for the property we are STILL attempting to buy, LBC for a garage was turned down twice. Plenty of space for one and not impacting on anyone's view but house is G2 and in a conservation area, so seems it is not the same rules that apply for PP.

So much will come down to the local CO. There is a large concrete floored hideous shed in the garden that I want to replace with a slightly larger studio/office/shed (could I get away with tacking a garage on the end :twisted: ) and I mentioned this to him when he was there. He raised an eyebrow at the words 'slightly larger', but said it probably would be okay but design was important - he'd rather see something very contemporary but everyone locally would want Tudor pastiche so we'll try and meet in the middle.

So, I would get onto them and see what the lie of the land is before submitting expensive plans.

 

[Feltwell]

Oak garages don't seem expensive (kits on eBay at least). That gives me an idea of building a big garage by stealth. I'm a car enthusiast and would really like a garage but every time I go through the costs it ends up north of £50K.

Admittedly not an oak garage Malcolm, but I managed to build mine - which is a decent size, a very generous double - for about half that. Reclaimed bricks & roof tiles. I'm not in a conservation area and didn't need the tree report or archaeology, but did need full PP and Building Regs, plus foundations cost a lot due to a sloping site.

Now I've just got to afford the nice old car to go in it, spent all the money on the garage.... :roll:

Old post here, which one day when I finally finish the garage *completely* (rather than 98% as it is now) I'll update:-

http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9699&hilit=victorian+garage&start=30

 

[88v8]

I am building a garage in front of our GII.

Oak, clay tiles.
Totally bespoke.
I designed it.
Architect did the drawings and handled the application.

It will look old. I would not contemplate or tolerate anything that looks new.

A double with pit, it will cost about £35k. A mixture of dayworks, and own work.

Application was made via the CO, who OK'd it and then left it to Planning.

I am (deliberately) just within 30m floor area, so no Buildings Regs, other than Part P.

Ivor

 

[Bayliss]

Thank you everybody for your input and guidance. I am intrigued by 88v8 comment regarding a new installation to look old. That to my mind would be a perfect garage in keeping with its near neighbours. And yet I understood, from media coverage, that many conservation officers now prefer to see modern carbuncles rather than pastiche new build. Examples of lovely period homes with glass boxes attached.

 

[MatthewC]

You will need to apply for planning permission - not listed building consent - as the garage would be within the curtilage of a listed building even if it is a temporary structure.

Around here you would need to make two separate applications, for PP and LB consent respectively. And I don't think temporary structures get any easier treatment.

So much will come down to the local CO.

Aye, there's the rub. It's all subjective and depends on the whims/likes/dislikes of your local CO who can say one thing and then turn it down when you apply for what they said would be OK...

 

[Bayliss]

Been doing a little research on the house I am interested in purchasing, or at least pursuing further.

Just had a look at the outside and notice that paster has fallen off a section just under the gable jetty. The tie-beam, judging from appearance has quite a sag to it and the plaster that has fallen away is around the deepest section of sag. Also some plaster cracking to the front, though not severe and some plaster loss just under the guttering on the corner of the house (can be seen in images). The house has an overall 'down at heal' look about it, although exterior looks can be deceptive I suppose. The listing description suggests c1556, how much survives I am yet to find out. The roof space is not apparently accessible, this is a great shame and also a bit of a worry. The listing information of 1955 reports inaccessibility back then, although the roof tiles were replaced 20th CENTURY. Wonder what the roof timbers are like!
I would welcome your comments bearing in mind its not my house as yet.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-32496264?PremiumA=true
Bury St Edmunds, Stanton. (old bury road)

 

[a twig]

For anyone having trouble with the above link, try this one:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-32496264.html

 

[88v8]

Looks pretty good. Pity it's on the road of course, but that presumably reflects in the price.

When one puts a rigid skin of plaster over a structure which constantly moves, it will crack, more so in some places than others, and routinely requires titivation. The question is what lies beneath?. If the render is fairly old, lime, and in reasonably good nick, then it's likely OK.
if it's cement, or new, then it's a gamble. The timber frame can be a wreck.

Perhaps a chat with the neighbours would do no harm. After all, being a semi, there would need to be a degree of co-operation, and they may be able to give reassurance &/or have photos.

You can check whether it's lime render by pocketing a fragment and dropping it into vinegar. If lime, it will fizz.

Fitted carpet... all very nice but what lies beneath? Check around the edge for damp. In our cottage, was so damp at some points that the Gripperods had rotted, and we had to have the whole (1970s concrete) floor out of the sitting room before we moved in.

Ivor

 

[Bayliss]

Thanks for comment / input Ivor, all useful stuff. It is a pity about being so close to the road, I waited around for a while in my car to see how busy the road is, it is a moderate Village road with no heavy lorries in the time I was there. Good idea to check if it is a lime plaster by the 'fizz' test, I hadn't thought of that. Hope that it may be brick or flagstone under the carpet, soon find out when I walk over it with a discreet bounce test here and there.

 

[Bayliss]

Sadly I found that the traffic volume was just to much to bear. Still looking.

 

[Flyfisher]

That's a shame, but better to have found out before moving in. Good luck with your search, there will be a house with your name on it somewhere out there.

 

[CliffordPope]

Check that it would actually be within the curtilage. Curtilage is not the same thing as garden.

 

[Bayliss]

Yes as you say somewhere a house will pop up that will be ideal, or as near to that as possible for we all know that a compromise or two is likely.
In the weekend newspaper a double page feature on period properties for sale in Northern France, amazing amount of property which look like bargains, 10 bedrooms set in grounds for about £300k, has to be a catch!