Buying a Victorian Farm cottage.

[mcmurray]

What to look out for during the viewing?

The house in queston is a semi-detached building in a small village built around 1890, it has been rendered so I don't know what the construction material is yet. I rented a similar property (rendered too) about 3 years ago and found the biggest problem was the damp from the earth floor.

Alastair

 

[Michelle73]

Hello

Some things I wish I'd known to look for :

Tongue and groove walls & ceilings can hide much damp nastiness.
Outside floor levels which you seem to be aware of already.
Exterior weatherproof masonry paint is a horror although it does make the cememt render look prettier
Condition of window frames, see if you can dig at them with a screw driver for soft spots.
Make sure windows have Sills / Cills which are still doing a good job of directing water away from the walls and not directly into a cavity such as mine..
Get a really good look at the loft space if you can and the roof slates from the outside. I just saw lots of good storage space when I should have been looking for damp and slipped tiles.
Bricked up fireplaces were a problem in our house, we had to open them up and vent them properly which got rid of some dampness.

Hope your cottage has none of these but you'll find lots of very helpful advice from the experts here (i'm not one of them!) on how to handle these kinds of issues as I've found out that they're not the end of the world and can be fixed quite easily with a bit of advice and tlc.

 

[biffvernon]

What to look out for during the viewing?
Alastair

A bit more roof than Nocton Hall.

(Tell us more about it - Estate agent details?)

 

[mcmurray]

http://www.expertagent.co.uk/in4gle...d0c-a759-4fdb-9879-5b8d6f605c8d}/external.pdf not very descriptive

To be honest I'd rather a larger house with better aspect, but trying to find that near lincoln is difficult. Anything that fits the bill for restoration goes to auction and gets developed to within a inch of its life!

If anyone could point me in the right direction I'd be greatfull. The key consideration I have is our two dogs who need a reasonable garden / land to enjoy, wife and child are ready for the comitment.

I viewed an 18th century house in Scothern earlier in the year, if was perfect, eveyone loved it.... except the dogs, as it had no enclosed rear space. We also viewed an 1890's semi in Saxilby which was timewarp but vandalised, that went to a cash buyer almost instantly, sadly driving by last month, it has been 'modernised' and lost everyting that (in my opinion) was going for it.

Alastair

 

[JoceAndChris]

Very exciting stage for you! Don't rush it! The perfect house will come up.
How close to Lincoln do you need to be?

This one needs rescuing:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-27150098.html?minPrice=70000&maxPrice=110000&minBedrooms=1&displayPropertyType=houses&radius=15.0&oldDisplayPropertyType=houses&pageNumber=32&premiumA=true&fromSummary=true&backToListURL=%2Fproperty-for-sale%2FLincoln.html%3FminPrice%3D70000%26maxPrice%3D110000%26minBedrooms%3D1%26displayPropertyType%3Dhouses%26radius%3D15.0%26oldDisplayPropertyType%3Dhouses%26index%3D310

 

[JoceAndChris]

This one in Billinghay is also delightful, but may not offer enough outside space.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-13024293.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^3511&minPrice=70000&maxPrice=110000&minBedrooms=1&displayPropertyType=houses&oldDisplayPropertyType=houses&pageNumber=1&fromSummary=true&backToListURL=%2Fproperty-for-sale%2Ffind.html%3FlocationIdentifier%3DREGION%255E3511%26minPrice%3D70000%26maxPrice%3D110000%26minBedrooms%3D1%26displayPropertyType%3Dhouses%26oldDisplayPropertyType%3Dhouses

How much restoration are you up for? DIY or not?

 

[mcmurray]

The North Leverton cottage is wonderful, just a tad too far from Lincoln for me though. Really 10 miles is my limit. Out of interest how likely is one to get planning permission to extend a place such as that in North Leverton? Is it a case of the answer being 'No' before you even ask the question or is it a possibility? I guess the answer revolves around what exactly you intend to to to it! I am ready for any level of restoration, but I'd rather it had a roof :wink:

Thanks,
Alastair

PS. As suggested the second one is lacking on the land front....how did you come up with those so quickly?

 

[Tom]

Have you seen this one? Currently a one bedroomed but previous had two.

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&pid=2806449

Or this?

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&pid=4455037

Jaqy

 

[another_richard]

Hello.

I turned down a number of places based on:

Modern Concrete tiles over Vickytorian trusses and resulting sagging.

Gap under ground floor concreted and subsequent tell-tale parallel lines signifying the dreaded damp course.

Why was the floor laminated in that room yet all the others stripped bare and waxed?

Working chimblees?

Builders rubbish between gaps in joists.

Pink plaster

 

[JoceAndChris]

how did you come up with those so quickly?

Years of practice at the jumble and the junk shop in picking out the pretties.

So much goes in to the choosing of the house, not just the practical condition and what needs doing (and we were clueless), but also all the life style factors, a garage, a road, a garden, noise problems. I rejected everything which sat on a busy road, because of the danger to cats and children. Then I wanted fireplaces, a big garden, a shop within walking distance, a house with plenty of natural light. It was hard to find it all, but I did.

You don't get everything though. This house doesn't have mains water, needs a fortune spending on it and the local town is something of an armpit. I had to compromise somewhere!

 

[Flyfisher]

Out of interest how likely is one to get planning permission to extend a place such as that in North Leverton? Is it a case of the answer being 'No' before you even ask the question or is it a possibility? I guess the answer revolves around what exactly you intend to to to it!

The North Leverton property is G2 listed, which means that you'll need Listed Building Consent for any alterations. This doesn't rule out any changes or additions but it's a slightly different process to normal planning consent and is typically overseen by a Conservation Officer.

If you find a listed property that would only be suitable for your needs with certain alterations then you should ideally contact the relevant conservation officer and discuss your proposals for the property before you commit to the purchase. This, of course, is easily said but might be more difficult in practice. COs are busy people and you may be in a race with other prospective buyers who care less about altering the property.

Having said that, our CO was very helpful and came out to visit and discuss our plans a couple of times before we committed to taking it on. I was pleasantly surprised at the scope for alterations and we had no problems with our (fairly minimal) plans. Indeed, our CO suggested things we hadn't even considered. So, basically, with a listed property, the CO will be your key contact for the planning process and an early-as-possible discussion will be extremely valuable.

Only you can judge what risks you want to take but, personally, I wouldn't be happy taking on a property that I knew would only be suitable after alterations without a very strong indication that my proposed alterations would be allowed.

 

[Feltwell]

Usually it's not the original building that's the problem, is what abuses it has suffered since being built.

Victorian buildings are easier to assess than older ones in many ways, as the construction methods are generally not that far removed from what has been built in more recent times, even if the materials have changed.

Damp is always the one to watch for - it can be as easy as fixing guttering to cure, but it can also mean that the concrete ground floor put in during the 60's all needs to be ripped out. It will be practically impossible to find a house that by now hasn't had cement or modern plaster used on it somewhere - it's not desireable at all but it doesn't always cause a problem. My own Victorian house has been partially repointed with a cement based mortar, some rooms have been skimmed with modern gypsum plaster - all by previous owners - but there is very little damp that is evident. If I do any work then I use lime mortar or plaster, and I will gradually rid myself of the modern stuff over time, so making sure that the building can breathe - but there's no great impending need to do this.

Don't be taken in by damp-proofing companies wanting to inject the walls - it's nonsense, you'll find lots of info on here if you search.

You say the house has been rendered - do you know if in cement or lime? I'm presuming it wasn't rendered originally? Chances are if done in the last 50 years it will be cement based, which is not breathable and can trap damp. You're unlikely to be able to take this off to expose the original brick without damaging that brick. What you may need to do is remove the render and replace it with a lime-based render, then limewash the building, so it retains it's breatheability.

There is practically nothing that can't be fixed over time - the question is more do you love the house enough to put up with whatever needs doing until you have the time / money / inclination to do it? Ohh, and if you think it will take you 5 years to sort it, it will probably actually take 15! :wink:

 

[Feltwell]

Just seen your estate agent's link!

Looks like cement render, and looks like the roof, doors & windows have been replaced. Are you sure it's Victorian? It's quite possible that it is, with the alterations making it look newer - but on first impression to me it looks more 1940's. If it is then it probably has cavity walls, in which case the render doesn't really matter.

 

[Flyfisher]

There is practically nothing that can't be fixed

Indeed. As a builder once told me (in answer to one of my dafter "is it possible to . . .? " questions) "we can put a man on the moon if you wish, it's only a question of money". :wink:

 

[mcmurray]

I went to have a look today.
Not terrible but I was put off right away by the new builds behind it. As always the other half of the semi was a different story, no parking, but a great garden with many mature trees and not overlooked. We followed this with a look at a cottage from the 1830s, it had been renevated over the last three years with a rear extension which doubled the square footage. Great, but I'd have to trade in the Discovery for an MG Midgit to be able to park in the rear courtyard

Alastair

 

[mcmurray]

Went to see another today, what a house! I want it.

However, there is always a catch. The current owner has had the house in his family for 80-90 years but as he is a builder he thinks he knows what the house will be worth once it is renovated and extended into the footprint of the coal house. He has had plans drawn up and apparently passed them under the nose of the local CO and planning officer who both gave it the nod - in principle. The house is mid Victorian (i'd say) and hasn't been occupied for five years. I'd like your opinion on the market value of the house given the following details:
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/de..._medium=CPC&utm_content=74275&refer=nest74275

What it doesn't say is:
50 yds up a track from the pleasant high street, front of the house is on the track and the image in the add is the back of it - taken 2 years ago.
Entire house is covered in a creeper, both front and rear guttering is rotten through and roof tiles need attention in one corner. The walls are cracked from the upper down to the lower window openings on both rear windows although cracks are only in mortar.
Slight damp in one bedroom and below in the dining room, apparently due to guttering. House doesn't smell damp at all.
Checked out the loft space, all good solid timbers with a felt type backing under the tiles, the owner did this 30 years ago and said that it has perished where it folds into the guttering.
Again 30 years ago, concrete floors with a plastic membrane were poured downstairs, all external walls were taken back to the bricks and plaster boarded. No damp proof course is present. No C heating, no gas, no oil, no LPG. On the main sewer.
The garden and parking are great, with an option to buy a piece of grass land which would double the garden. Council have continually rejected any plans to develop said land due to impossible access.

A lot to take in, I know. I’m interested in opinions on price, condition and a way forward as the house has been on the market for 2 years at 200k and has had more viewings than you could shake a stick at. He said he’d had offers in the region of 155k and had rejected them out of hand as with 40k building work he could make it 4 bed over three floors and put in a large kitchen and bathroom above in the current location of the lean to coal house / veranda and get 300k for it!

Thanks
Alastair

 

[Flyfisher]

Market value is simply what people are prepared to pay, not what the seller thinks it should be worth.

Sound to me like the 'market value' is around £150k based on the last two years experience, if you can believe the vendor, of course. If he's so confident of making £300k for just £40k outlay, what's holding him back?

Forget all the bluster and just offer what it's worth to you, taking into account all the work you know needs to be done and factoring in the risk of work that may turn out to be necessary but is currently unknown. You're the only one that matters and you're the one who will have to live there and pay the mortgage.

 

[DaveBrigg]

I'd echo what Flyfisher has said about market value. A house is only worth what someone is willing to pay, and if it has a leaking roof which is causing damp in a downstairs room, the value of the house is going to go down rather than up, especially in the current climate.
If you have got to install central heating from scratch, and then get the damaged walls patched up and redecorated, this will account for a fair chunk of the £40 000 the seller has mentioned, so I suspect that if you add in a loft conversion, extra bedroom, large kitchen and bathroom the usual period property rule will apply, and that figure may need to go up by 50 - 100%. Of course, you may be able to do much of the work yourself, which would make a big difference.
On the plus side, if it has been left empty for five years and only has damp in one corner, that makes it better than some of the properties we are living in at the moment.

 

[MattW]

My suggestion is how to proceed is as follows:

- Speak to a couple of estate agents about what they think a property of the layout, location and condition that you will have acheived at the end would be actually sell for in the current market. Also ask them if they know anything about that house - it is quite possible it is well known to them by reputation - their gossip/market intelligence could be very helpful in deciding whether to proceed. It is possible the vendor is totally unrealistic and will never sell at an appropriate price.

- if you need a mortgage to buy this, check that you can get one. Normal mortgages aren't usually available for uninhabitable houses.

- If the property is unoccupied, request permission of hte vendor to do a detailed inspection in including be allowed to lift a floorboard or two etc.

- take one or possible two local builders (ideally recommended to you) around the property (there is a good change that one of them might well have already been asked to give an indicative quote). Give them a clear spec as to what you will want to them to do, being really clear what is included and what is excluded.

- I would suggest that you exclude the finish from the quote (i.e. bathrooms, kitchen, radiators, floors, lightswitches etc.) as these are hugely variable and the builder won't know what price point you are operating at. Price these up yourself and include them in hte spec, making clear if it isn't on your list, it ought to be in theirs. Listen carefully to where they appear uncertain as to whether something might need to be done that wasn't in the spec. Ask builder whether they would be prepared to operate on a fixed price basis.

- Be sensible in your assumptions about what needs to be done, erring on the side of caution. E.g. the window frames may need replacing if that creeper has been allowed ot stay on them for long, trapping water etc.

- Add a contigency amount (things will always cost more) - 10-15% is a starting point, but the condition of hte property might easily warrant 25%. Ask builder what he would consider is approprate.

- Then add a developers' margin of 15% to the cost of the whole project. A professional competiting with you on the property is going to look to achieve this. Project managing this and taking the risk of getting the sums wrong and being out of pocket deserve a return, for both a professional developer but also for you.

- Don't forget the cost of funding / alternative accomodation (you are going ot be paying rent somewhere else while also paying the mortgage on this)

- Take average estimated sale price and deduct margin, contingency, builders costs, and finish costs. Make offer to vendor. Be willing to show them the calculations if necessary (not to enable them to persuade you that something doesn't need doing, but rather that the offer is well thought through).

- Be polite, but willing to stick to your guns. The house has been on the "market" for some time at unrealistic price. Don't get sucked into raising your price. The fact that the builder hasn't done it himself says a huge amount (either he doesn't have the cash or alternatively knows he can't get it done in the price he is indicating to you.).

By way of an example, I bought a place in very bad condition like yours at the start of this year from a developer who had acquired 2 properties at auction that didn't want to go ahead with one. I spent 4 months "negotiating" the price i.e. not really moving from my first offer. We are 50% of the way through the work on budget. That budget though was the result of a lot of detailed planning before exchanging - it is also 25% more than the agent and the developer indicated to me ought to be what I should expect to spend.

 

[Tom]

Mcmurray, can I ask what your budget is for a property, just in case one of us sees something that don't which may be of interest? I had the impression from your original post that it was around £100k but I guess I was wrong. No probs if you'd rather not say

Jaqy