Boilers

[AMc]

We recently had a new blending valve fitted by another plumber (appointed by the manufacturer) and he may well have turned off this tap and failed to turn it back on again.

During some of the trials of getting our heat pump heating working effectively one of the engineers accidentally pressed a button on the control panel. In addition to not having a warm enough house we started to not have any hot water in the morning. It took 3 of us to realise that he'd disabled the timer program that switched from heating to hot water mode overnight. I was not impressed.
Then when I adjusted the clock for GMT this autumn I did the same thing and spent 2 days wondering what was broken before I realised it was my fault - thankfully I hadn't called them out

Hope it's simple to sort. It is worth labelling the valves/stopcocks or drawing on the wall behind them to indicate their function and correct operating positions. Plumbers etc. tend to miss this step, then a new one has to work it all out from scratch and you yourself have no clue. I had to spend a few minutes puzzling the correct positions of the shut off valves on the water softener after I'd serviced it.

 

[LadyArowana]

It is worth labelling the valves/stopcocks or drawing on the wall behind them to indicate their function and correct operating positions. Plumbers etc. tend to miss this step, then a new one has to work it all out from scratch and you yourself have no clue. I had to spend a few minutes puzzling the correct positions of the shut off valves on the water softener after I'd serviced it.

I am convinced that the mere act of labelling things means the information is seared into your brain forever. We have two shut off valves behind a panel in the kitchen, water and gas. After they were installed I dutifully did a diagram for the panel because I was sure that if I ever needed to shut something off in an emergency I would panic and not be totally sure which was which. The result has been that I cannot see a yellow pipe or valve without instantly thinking "gas".

 

[Flyfisher]

I'd agree with that up to a point.

When we had mains gas installed the gas people duly dug a hole where their database showed the nearest point to connect to the gas main. They had to be careful because the database showed it ran next to a water supply. Sure enough they soon uncovered two pieces of ducting, one blue and one yellow.

So they cut into the yellow ducting . . . . . only to find a blue water pipe!

Sure enough, when they cut into the blue ducting, they found the yellow gas pipe. Fortunately, the actual pipes contained the correct service, even if the ducting didn't!

Trust but verify, methinks.

 

[tobydog]

Well, before I say anything, I should just add .

Armed with my new found knowledge (which way is up?) I have easily sorted the problem. I disconnected the filling loop from the bottom and nothing came out. I turned the tap at the top of the loop and very little came out. This suggested a blockage.

There is a third tap higher up and when I started to open that one it all got rather wet and it was at that point I realised that the boiler fills from the top and not the bottom. When the Firebird appointed plumbers fitted the new blending valve they must have left this turned off :shock:. I haven't opened the boiler since the work was done but very slowly we emptied the mini water tank. As I said earlier, we use very little hot water from the taps (we are clean ). As it wasn't being replenished it was only a matter of time before it ran dry. It also explains why I couldn't recharge the boiler pressure. Everything is now full, happy and properly charged. I now know a lot more about my boiler.

The only problem we have (and it started at the same time the tank ran dry but probably unrelated) is that the signal for heat from our two controllers is not getting through to the boiler very quickly. Last night we gave up waiting and started a fire but thankfully it fired up okay this morning. Fingers crossed it's a temporary glitch.

 

[AMc]

Brilliant, glad you have sorted out the problem - now label the valves before you forget

When I first looked at my leaking water softener I discovered which bits contained mains water at 2.5 bar by an "experimental" method. I got a bit wet and its surprising how easily you can unscrew a cover compared to screwing it back on while it gushes freezing water over your legs :lol:

 

[Zebra]

It is worth labelling the valves/stopcocks or drawing on the wall behind them to indicate their function and correct operating positions. Plumbers etc. tend to miss this step, then a new one has to work it all out from scratch and you yourself have no clue.

Gosh, I knew that I had not much of a clue about plumbing, but had always imagined that a plumber would be able to instantly identify what was what!
Glad you got in sorted tobydog.

 

[LadyArowana]

Gosh, I knew that I had not much of a clue about plumbing, but had always imagined that a plumber would be able to instantly identify what was what!
Glad you got in sorted tobydog.

Water and electrickery don't mix well. It reminds me of a couple of incidents that occurred during tea making sessions on our project. Twice I found the kettle had failed to boil, once the plumber had filled it with water and not turned it on, the other the electrician had turned it on but not put any water in :roll:

 

[kaz]

Sorry... my situation is now driving me nutz! In summary:

- Had a quote for £6250 to move and replace the boiler

- Had another quote... however, this time I had asked that they assess whether the 13 year boiler can be repaired instead of replaced. The quote came back for £5000 saying the boiler needed to be replaced and moved. I've had a few follow up phone calls from a rep from this company trying to book the job. I asked for clarification regarding why the existing boiler couldn't be fixed and was told that it would be such a lengthy process which could end up costing loads and possibly result in me needing a new boiler anyway! This sent out warning bells as it looks as though they never intended to assess for repair.

- I've booked a 3rd quote... the guy is so busy he can't come until next Friday. I've explained again that I want to avoid getting a new boiler. This chap seemed to 'get it' and said that at the time of his visit he would do a few simple tests starting with the fuse and the worse case scenario would be that he would have to order and install a new burner. Does this make any sense to anyone?

It is now freezing outside and the old building has no heat... I'm really concerned about damp etc

 

[Flyfisher]

I'm guessing that the two high quotes are from firms who don't know enough about such things (or don't want to!) to be able to diagnose and repair faulty boilers and are only interested or able to install brand new ones. One wonders how helpful they'd be if the new one developed a simple fault in a few years time.

The second chap, to me, is saying the right sort of things but, to be fair to him, it's nearly impossible to fully assess the repairs needed until the investigation has been done, so there's an element of trust involved, which is why it's so nerve-wracking when dealing with a new person and why 'old faithfuls' become worth their weight in gold. Whenever we needed to call the 'old school' plumber I've mentioned before, the relationship was so good that we never discussed money - he only ever did the minimum necessary to fix the problem and eventual bill was always eminently reasonable.

At least your '3rd chap' has given you a worst case and it does seem to make sense. I'd certainly think it should be possible to replace all the burner gubbins without having to disturb the actual boiler jacket and associated pipework. Has he given you an idea of pricing for that worst case?

As for damp. I don't think I'd be worrying about that. Half of our house has had no heating for a few years now and used to be quite damp in places due to roof and other problems. These have all been fixed and the house is noticeably drier even though we've not yet installed any heating. Hopefully, your house will only suffer a few more weeks of coldness so I doubt that damp will be an issue.

I would, however, be thinking about the risk of frozen pipework if we have an extended period of frosty nights.

Best of luck with your 'third man'.

 

[kaz]

Many thanks... my son has to pop in to check the place at least once a week for the insurance to remain valid. He said the airing cupboard was still warm... is it independant from the boiler?

 

[worms]

Do you perhaps have an electric immersion heater in the hot water cylinder that is still switched on, and it is that which is heating the airing cupboard?

 

[kaz]

Worms... probably! I haven't a clue what's what.

Just an up-date... thanks to everyone for their responses / guidance, this has made me stand firm on pushing for repair rather than a new boiler, which the first 2 'professional' quotes said I needed. Today another chap came to give a quote and surprise, surprise... he actually got my existing boiler working within an hour! If I hadn't come on here to seek some advice I would've been paying out for resiting a new boiler... so many, many thanks .

 

[agbagb]

Agb's Missus

So pleased for you Kaz , now you've found your "diamond" keep him/her close. Our plumber is wonderful and comes out to properties at the drop of a hat. Just wish we could "lend" him to everyone (think he's getting a bit snowed under with all our recommendations :lol: )

 

[Flyfisher]

Excellent news! Well done for holding out and finding the right person. It's easier to give advice about such things than to actually have to deal with the problem along with all the worry of a huge bill and stress about the effect on the house. Make sure you have that chap's phone number, mobile number, email address, whatever, and don't ever lose them!

It would be interesting to know what needed to be done to the boiler in the end and what the cost was - I suspect it was rather less than the £5000-6000 that had been suggested for a complete replacement!

Another small PPUK victory.

 

[LadyArowana]

Just an up-date... thanks to everyone for their responses / guidance, this has made me stand firm on pushing for repair rather than a new boiler, which the first 2 'professional' quotes said I needed. Today another chap came to give a quote and surprise, surprise... he actually got my existing boiler working within an hour! If I hadn't come on here to seek some advice I would've been paying out for resiting a new boiler... so many, many thanks .

That's a great Christmas present, I echo what others have said, keep that chaps number!

 

[worms]

Great news! PPUK 2, Tradesmen 0!

 

[kaz]

It would be interesting to know what needed to be done to the boiler in the end and what the cost was - I suspect it was rather less than the £5000-6000 that had been suggested for a complete replacement!

This is what he had to say (email):

I am concerned that the operation of the programmer is erratic, it may need replacing.

The fan on the burner was badly damaged and it was not caused by normal running, as you can see the hammer and screwdriver marks!

Now the bad bit, my bill. I installed and commissioned a new burner.

Burner Cost - £274.00

Labour - £ 80.00

VAT - £ 70.80

Total - £424.80

If you have any questions or need more help please do not hesitate to contact me.

LBP Solutions Ltd

 

[Flyfisher]

Looks eminently fair to me (well except for the fact that the government made more money from the job than 'LBP solutions ltd'!). I'd have wrapped my cheque around a good bottle of christmas cheer.

Bit of a mystery about the damage to the burner/fan assembly though . . . strange that the other companies didn't point that out before suggesting a £6k boiler replacement job? :roll:

Anyway, well done again for holding out.

 

[Lime]

It would be interesting to know what needed to be done to the boiler in the end and what the cost was - I suspect it was rather less than the £5000-6000 that had been suggested for a complete replacement!

This is what he had to say (email):
I am concerned that the operation of the programmer is erratic, it may need replacing.
The fan on the burner was badly damaged and it was not caused by normal running, as you can see the hammer and screwdriver marks!
Now the bad bit, my bill. I installed and commissioned a new burner.
Burner Cost - £274.00
Labour - £ 80.00
VAT - £ 70.80
Total - £424.80
If you have any questions or need more help please do not hesitate to contact me.
LBP Solutions Ltd

What an excellent result, well done!

Unfortunately IME the hammer and screwdriver marks are common on equipment that has been "inspected" by people who haven't a clue.
Almost certainly the boiler was easily serviceable prior to the "inspections" and they expected you to pay for their incompetence.
This is a very common story and one that I've heard so many times over the years I'm surprised so many people still fall for it.
I keep a sharp eye on any service engineers in my house and they get told off in no uncertain terms if I see that they are using force or inappropriate tools.
(I've never used a hammer on a boiler in my life and I've serviced many boilers in the past.)