Bedroom fireplace revealed: what are my options?

[Manks]

Further to earlier answers, now that you have found out what is there, I'd be inlcined to cover it back up again. Why? Because it is in the wrong place now that there is a wall immediately adjacent.

Perhaps taking the wall out is another option! If you were to do that, a nice Victorian combination would finish the job off nicely, but leaving the fireplace as is - i.e. a brick opening in an odd place is the worst solution IMHO.

Manks

 

[Penners]

I am looking for suggestions as for what to install. I believe the chimney will be usable so have opted for a cast iron insert. Your thoughts?

Yes, AJ, as usual I'm a year or two behind the times!

I would definitely go for a little Victorian cast iron bedroom fireplace. Do you feel a tramp round the salvo yards coming on?

 

[ajbaker]

Do you feel a tramp round the salvo yards coming on?

My favorite shopping centre!

Fireplace reserved, wire brushes and Stovax ordered.

 

[ajbaker]

I posted a question over on the Screwfix site for suggestions on attaching the cast iron insert to the wall since it has no fixing points. I'm still looking for suggestions on this....

However one interesting question was raised: would the fireplace have originally had a surround and/or mantle? As it is it will simply fit flush with the wall and plaster. I was under the impression bedroom fireplaces would have been very plain and simple. (late Georgian or early Victorian)

 

[Nemesis]

Have you a picture of this insert?

It's probably much later than the building anyhow.

I'm not totally convinced by the bricks at the back - may be a later addition.

Have you tried stripping off the paper above the brick arch to see if anything else is revealed?

 

[ajbaker]

Do you people never sleep?!

Will supply a picture of the insert tomorrow. Yes I have no doubt its much later than the house.

The bricks at the back are not part of the original. I opted not to remove them since they will form part of the packing behind the insert when it is installed. Can remove them if necessary though.

Paper above brick arch?!!! How could you? That's MY lime plaster. We took the wall back to brick and there was nothing above the arch. It's simply part of the lintel.

 

[Nemesis]

I'm an insomniac. Or amnesiac, forget which.


I suspect then that originally you had a hob grate in very simple form, with possibly a simple wooden surround - it would be unlikely that such a bare brick surround would be left.

Hard to say though - so much depends on the date of the house and even then fashions changed slowly.

If you are putting in an insert it will need a surround, or it will look very odd, unless it's the type which had its own surround cast in.

Lugs to locate - I've posted about ways of doing this before I seem to recall - not too long ago ... have you tried a site search re fire insert fitting?

Sorry - did not intend to insult your craftmanship re plastering!

This is in a very odd place you know - are you sure the room wasn't once larger?

Is there a solid lintel above the arch?

 

[ajbaker]

Everything happens so slowly. A week later, I'm still waiting for everything to arrive (oak) and have been shocked by the prices for a chimney 'soundness' test - #130 including a sweep :O Opted for a simple chimney sweep at #35 by someone else instead - if the room or loft smells of smoke after I light a fire I know it is not sound!

Pictures of the insert I have purchased here...

As you will see it has come up quite nicely, and should look great after a lick of Stovax (anyone know what happened to Zebo?) I feel a little stupid having purchased an insert with no surround - finding one at a reasonable price is going to be a nightmare now. And making one will not be much cheaper either. Alas I may have to make do without a surround.

Speaking of looking strange, you're right Nemesis the fireplace is in an odd place. The wall to the right is a plasterboard partition. It creates a hall way between this and a second bedroom in order to get to a bathroom that originally would not have been there. I'm in the process of working with an architect to have a single story extension built. This will include a bathroom and enable us to remove this partition and extend the second bedroom - the top story will then have return to its original layout. Either way I am glad that I have exposed the fireplace even if the wall is not removed.

Regarding the lintel, no there is no solid lintel above the arch. There is a small metal arch beneath the bricks that is in good condition. Am I not right in thinking this combination is quite normal for a 200+ year old house?

Regarding the hearth, as I said the constructional extends around 300mm from the chimney. Reassure me again about not needing to meet current regs if it is pre-existing...
Also would one recommend placing tiles on top of this to form a superimposed hearth? If so, does it need to be 300mm or 500mm as per the regulations? And, if 500 I need to lay these on top of the floor boards in the room - how is this done - what material etc?

Thanks for all of your thoughts and comments.

 

[Nemesis]

A very neat insert, yes a little later than the house but looks good.

Zebo - hmmm, what happened I don't know. I've still got a tube and I have just bought some Stovax so I wll do a side by side test.

Test - if you can get to the chimney stack you can do your own, it needs to be blocked off top and bottom and a smoke bomb thingy lit.

If it was mine I'd simply do the hearth (which should be stone?) with Stovax too, and see if you can get a tiny fender. As it's an existing fireplace no you shouldn't need to do anything, the hearth will be quite thick under the floor, and flush is historically correct.

Yes, as long as the iron arch is in place it should all be fine. Don't forget a firebrick.

Surround - I'd make my own, very simple, three wood planks (two uprights, one across) with a bit of a plinth and a simple shelf. Paint it.

 

[Nemesis]

[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]



Found this on a commercial site - ignore the fancy bits, and I appreciate too large for your insert, but surely something simple like this could be made cheaply?

If nothing else I'd find a couple of pieces of wood moulding which would cover the join and stick a shelf on top.

 

[Penners]

As you will see it has come up quite nicely, and should look great after a lick of Stovax (anyone know what happened to Zebo?)

Nice little fireplace.

Is Stovax a heat resistant matt black paint? If so, I reckon you'll regret using it. Iron fireplaces just don't look right matt black. A Zebo-type burnished finish is 100% nicer.

I think Zebo has been discontinued, but you can get equivalent grate polishes - I'm pretty sure Liberon do one.

 

[Nemesis]

Stovax is similar graphite polish to Zebo.

 

[thiambal]

I have found that the Liberon Iron Paste gives a better looking finish than the graphite polishes.

 

[timd78]

Nice little cast insert :wink:

Have fitted a few of these in various houses. Are you planning on using the fireplace when it is fitted?

If you are, I would do the following:

1. Remove the remaining brickwork that you planned on keeping as infill.
2. Decide what material you will be using for the hearth and remove existing concrete (this will probably be around 1 1/2" thick and will be laid on a slab which is supported by floor beams (do not remove slab).
3. Lay new hearth extend into the opening approx 6 inches so that it will extend under ash pan when fireplace is fitted.
4. You will need to fit a firebrick in the back of the fire (it slides in from the top. Look in you local reclamation yard - they were normally standard sizes. If you cant find one get a bigger one and cut it down to size.
5. Fix fireplace to the wall (fashion clips out of metal and screw these to the wall either side at the top of the fireplace to hold in position). Dab wet plaster onto back of the insert to form a seal when it is pressed onto brickwork. There may be lugs on the bottom of the insert, in which case you will need to mark out and drill into hearth so that lugs slot into place.
6. Decide on type of surround. I have always found that a simple pine surround looks good with these cast inserts. You will probably not be able to find one to fit. In which case I would approach a local carpenter and have one made to measure. The opening of the surround should be about 1 inch smaller in width and 1/2" in height and also have a rebate to help hold insert when fitted. Let the surround into the wall to provide an air tight seal. Fix onto brickwork and then plaster up to it with your lovely lime plaster!
7. Fit the surround and check that all looks good. Check that surround is level.
8. You will need to seal underneath the grate to stop the air flow from the chimney. Use mortar to fill the gaps between the back leg and the front legs.
9. You can now backfill behind the insert to form a shelf behind the fire. Use small pieces of rubble putting then in gently. When you reach the smoke opening you can finish of with mortar to form a flat shelf (this will make it easy to remove soot when cleaning chimney. Make sure that the register plate will open fully when in use!!.

Hope this helps

 

[ajbaker]

Thanks timd78

I had intended on installing the fireplace so that it could be used. I doubt I will use it, but I have always been one to do things properly if practical; installing for aesthetics seems rather pointless.

Thank you for your advice as well. I have done lots of research, and its always good to have more, especially when it confirms what you have already read.

Your comments about the hearth are interesting though. Currently there is a tiled hearth flush with the floor, sitting on a constructional hearth (which I gather is typical for this age of property). These tiles extend back into the recess, and protrude about 300mm. Is it really necessary to create another tiled hearth on top of this?

 

[Nemesis]

We have original, untiled. hearthstone hearths, tiles were a 'modern' thing really.

If it's in OK condition it can be left - or painted or 'leaded'. Often they used to be donkeystoned but that's poss going a bit far!

 

[timd78]

Hi,

Sorry had assumed tiled hearth had been ripped out. Keep the hearth flush with the floor it will not look right otherwise. As nemesis says it would probably have had a stone hearth originally but tiles are more in keeping with the cast insert. I would use a fender around hearth though in case anything rolls off fire :shock: .

You will find that you probably light it once only. Because of their small size they hardly give any heat off. I don't think that they were ever used much, which is why there are (were!) so many good ones still around, but it is best to fit them properly.