Bedroom fireplace revealed: what are my options?

[ajbaker]

In order to lime plaster my bedroom this weekend I have been removing all of the old plaster that has been applied through the ages: from old lime (only the loose stuff) to modern skim plaster. I wasn't originally intending to discover the fireplace that I knew would be there, but the plaster just kept coming off....! Call me inquisitive.

I feel really privileged to be the first to see this after being hidden for so many years - the small joys of owning an older house!

Anyhow I'm now left wondering what my options are...

The room is my main bedroom. It is not a large room and the bed usually goes against the fireplace wall. Therefore a working fire would not be useful. However the wall you see to the right is a modern stud partition, which, if I gain consent for my kitchen extension could be removed in a year or two. This would make the room much larger (original size), and therefore benefit from the fire.

So my options seem to be:
1. replaster and forget about it;
2. cover with plasterboard and plaster over that ready to be rediscovered in a year or two;
3. continue removing plaster and plaster around it to create a feature fireplace;
or 4. restoreit to its former glory as a working fire. (Should be possible since air is being drawn, chimney still in place etc.)

What are your thoughts? What condition is it in? How much effort would be involved in restoring it? What should I do?

What are the regulations for existing fires? Could I start using it now, or is the stud partition too close?

Finally, I was a bit surprised at what I found. I presumed there would be a cavity behind the brick all the way to the floor. In fact the cavity is only as low as the first layer of bricks you see. Is this normal? Is it designed to take a fireplace protruding from the wall which directs smoke into the flue? As you can tell, I know little about fireplaces!

More photos available at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajbaker/BedroomFireplace

If anyone is interested I could post more photos of this, my first DIY project in lime...

Oh, and once again, a huge thanks to those who offer their thoughts and advice on this board. I really appreciate people taking the time to share their valuable experience and knowledge.

Andrew

 

[gsport george]

Personally I would keep digging. It looks like it has been reduced in size before being bricked up altogether (to me). You may find more clues with digging.

The partition doesnt look particularly combustible so a fire wouldnt be too risky, but you can check the dimensions against the building regs to be sure.

I wouldnt want to repeat the mess, so opening it up now would be my choice...

George

 

[middi]

Shame that the "new" partition is so close to the fireplace, it makes the fireplace look out of context.

If you like it exposed and have plans ,eventually, to remove the partition, now is the time to restore it.

 

[David Q]

You can see quite clearly on the right that the original fireplace was bricked in at some point. This was likely to have been replaced by a gas fire, which would only need a small opening for a flue. Very common 1930s alteration, rip out those nasty old Victorian cast iron fireplaces and replace with a smart modern gas fire.

 

[ajbaker]

Shame that the "new" partition is so close to the fireplace, it makes the fireplace look out of context.

It does, you're right. Just another reason to wish it wasn't there. Sadly it was installed to create a passage way to a bathroon upstairs; which is, admittedly, nice.

If you like it exposed and have plans ,eventually, to remove the partition, now is the time to restore it.

I have the entire family coming on Saturday to have a go at lime plastering so was hoping to have something decided by then! If I want to restore, which would be preferable, its going to take weeks of research to find out what should, and should not, be there.

You can see quite clearly on the right that the original fireplace was bricked in at some point. This was likely to have been replaced by a gas fire, which would only need a small opening for a flue. Very common 1930s alteration, rip out those nasty old Victorian cast iron fireplaces and replace with a smart modern gas fire.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by the fireplace being bricked in? Are you referring to obvious bricks at the front, or something else? The house has never had gas so that would not have been the reason. This room used to have a radiator heated by a Parkray in the dining room. I therefore believe the fireplace was simply bricked in.

I still have no concept of why there is no cavity. The entire fireplace seems to have been filled in with mortar for some reason. Photo to come.... Should this be removed or should it be there?

Thanks for the comments thus far.

 

[gsport george]

Ours had had a smaller fire fitted, which was then "filled in" with concrete before being bricked up. You should be able to follow the hearth stone in from the floor. Everything above this probably needs to come out.

At the sides you should be able to see where the arch is supported. Everything inside this is PROBABLY an addition and can come out.

You will then have the original opening which you can render...

Exploring is about all you can do....

 

[worms]

Totally out of my depth here, but were some of the really small Victorian/Edwardian fireplaces not placed a couple of feet up with a very small hole and a grate fitted into it? Strikes me I saw this arrangment on one of these home make-over/locationlocation sort of programmes - looked very odd to me but was obviously original. Did they not also have similar things in old station waiting rooms?

 

[NT]

Exposed but not restored leaves you all the options open. If it looks bad (I cant see) a screen in front would take care of that. I'm bearing in mind you'll have more work done later, so this would be a stepping stone situation which keeps your options open and future work minimised.


NT

 

[ajbaker]

Having removed the next layer of bricks you can see the cavity is filled. I'm not really in a position to identity whether it has always been like that or if it is a relatively recent addition. (It doesn't look sooty.)



I am really interested in your comments, worms, about the higher level fires. I have never heard of this. Can anyone expand?

If I were to remove it, any suggestions on best tools to use? Chisel and hammer takes too long with 10mm plaster!

I think I will be plastering around it for the time being. If I plaster to the edge of the horizontal bricks (using wood to give straight edge) I should be ok? Do I attempt to plaster around the arch, or just go for a straight edge again?

 

[Nemesis]

Keep taking out the infill, and remove as much from the brickwork as poss.

The you can see what you have.

How old is the house?

I suspect that there was a tiny cast iron fireplace with a very small grate. The cavity will be a fireback, which slopes back but will be very shallow indeed by the time it gets to floor level - maybe one brick layer.

These little fireplaces can be picked up quite easily as they are often removed in bedrooms - why I don't know. Extra room I suppose.

 

[gsport george]

What is the infill made up of? It might just be stuff that has fallen down the chimney since it was blocked off...

IS there a hearth stone at floor level? That will give you some indication...

Just keep exploring.


If the chisel and hammer approach is proving slow look into getting an SDS drill woth roto-stop (ie hammer only) about £100 but soon pays for itself...


George

 

[ajbaker]

The house was initially built around 1800.

The infill looks to be a mortar of some kind. Definately not just stuff that has fallen - I wish! Lots of coarse sand.

There is a constructional hearth at floor level, though I forget how far it extends from the chimney - its covered in plaster at the moment!

 

[Nemesis]

Could be a small hob grate...

 

[plumbers mate]

>>Totally out of my depth here, but were some of the really small Victorian/Edwardian fireplaces not placed a couple of feet up with a very small hole and a grate fitted into it? <<

The bedsit I had when I was at College was in an attic and the fire place was right beside the wall in the corner - there was about 6 ins between the edge of the metal fireplace surround and the corner.

It was fitted with a gorgeous, unsafe gas fire (which threw masses of heat out and made lovely toast) when I was there.

House was most likely 1901ish give or take a couple of years.

 

[David Q]

We have two victorian fireplaces one with cast iron one without. The one without appears almost identical to yours, it has a sloping base quite high up (away from hearth). The grate on the fireplace went in front of the opening.

 

[worms]

I'm afraid a hunt on google has failed to turn up anything that looks like the type of fireplace that I am imagining. I think it would be (as Nemesis suggests) a small hob grate with (as David Q suggests) the hob fitted onto the hole that you have found. The one I saw on television was in a corner, I can't recall whether it was immediately adjacent to the corner (like the one mentioned by plumbers mate) or actually in the corner.

Surely someone on here must know more about this and can give an accurate description of this type of fire? Or is my memory really just playing tricks on me here?

 

[ajbaker]

After taking advice from various sources, I have promptly succumbed to temptation to take a hammer and chisel to the remaining bricks!

More Pictures...

The bricks and rubble I removed had been lime mortared in place and I also happened across a newspaper cutting from 1983. This must confirm when the fireplaces was filled. Incidentally, I am becoming familiar with the properties of lime - really strong, but also easy to 'take apart' without damaging bricks?!

What I am left with must be more akin to the original opening.

On Sunday I found myself at several reclamation centres. I have chosen (unless anyone can tell me why I should not) an old cast iron fireplace. It need to be reconditioned, but is in good condition having never been painted, no sign of rust, firebrick in good order etc. Size is perfect.

I have read through a fair number of the previous topics concerning fireplaces (a lot of useful information) and think I have a fairly good to-do list in my head.... Can anyone spot any problems or omissions?

• 1. Condition fireplace with wire brush
  2. Paint fireplace with Stovax (is it a good idea to use this behind as well? If not what can be used to leave the rear in a good condition?)
  3. Get chimney swept
  4. Test draw and flue with smoke
  5. Fit cast iron surround, using lime mortar around edges to seal (am intending on using iron bolts through the cast iron to secure it)
  6. In fill behind with bricks and rubble that have been taken out of the fireplace, mixed with a weak lime mortar.
  7. Lime mortar on top of the rubble behind fireplace, sloping down to vent in the iron fire surround.

Finally, the (constructional) hearth only extends about 30cm from the wall. Am I right in thinking current building regs require 50cm? If so what would people recommend to achieve this? Should the fireplace be mounted on or behind a new hearth?

 

[Penners]

It seems a shame to base your decision just on the constraints of a family plastering party. Couldn't you get them to plaster everything else, but leave the fireplace? This would then give you time to adopt a more measured approach to investigating what's behind those bricks, and what you want to do with it.

However, if you do decide that you don't want the fireplace exposed and restored, then I would urge only one thing: when you cover it up, leave everything intact for future generations to discover.

You might even include a sketch or photos and some notes with your deeds (if the house has any).

 

[ajbaker]

Hi Penners. Many thanks for your response, but I suspect you may have missed a few of the later posts, especially my last one including a link to pictures...

The fireplace has now been revealed. I am looking for suggestions as for what to install. I believe the chimney will be usable so have opted for a cast iron insert. Your thoughts?

 

[thiambal]

As for the constructional hearth - if the original one there exists then there is no need to comply with modern building regs which do require a deeper and significantly and thicker constructional hearth than the original.

Having said that we are quite happily using an original fireplace built straight on to the constructional hearth with no problems.

The question is are you really going to have fires in the this fire place or is it merely cosmetic. I would also consider what effect the heat from the fire would have on the new wall (or at least its decoration) as it is very close to the old opening.

If it cosmetic then I would not worry about the hearth. If it is going to be operational and you are worried you can always have a granite hearth added over the constructional hearth.

The building regs can be found here

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADJ_2002.pdf