Bedec Aqua Advanced Satin/ Bedec MSP Differences?

[TudorCottage]

I appreciate the MSP is for any surface and does not require an undercoat. But for painting interior wooden window frames and bannisters is there any real difference in these 2?

I’ve found a few reviews as stand alone products but have drawn a blank for a side by side test.

I’m not a great fan of water based paints for interior wood but to try and keep to microporous principles it seems the only other choice is linseed oil based paints. Something I’d love to try but it would appear these are best suited to applying to bare wood. But my ‘to do’ list limits my time available at the moment but would like to tidy the frames in the short term and perhaps visit stripping the frames at a later date.

Having said that it would be good to hear from anybody that has used linseed paint on prepared wood (without stripping) and an idea of the finish. It’s expensive stuff to buy if it doesn’t have the desired effect.

Thanks for any pointers.

 

[noj]

If there's already oil based paint on the frames then microporousity isn't an issue.

Sorry, never used the Aqua, have used a lot of the MSP (entire weatherboarded outside of the cottage and some interior woodwork including a couple of windowframes). Whilst it doesn't need undercoat it behaves much better with a primer and you have to ensure that any ferrous metal is properly sealed or you get rust stains - I guess proving that it really is porous.

Finish does not compare to linseed or 'traditional' (high VOC) gloss though.

 

[TudorCottage]

I’m pretty sure there is only water based paint present. I can expose bare wood fairly easily with sanding and whilst I’m no expert the dust coming off is very powdery. I know with a bit of effort and the right paint stripper I could get to bare wood, the wood is in good condition but the paint looks tired.

I want to repoint the chimney stack internally (big job) this winter and don’t want to bite off more than I can chew. So I’m thinking quick tidy up and move on. Just wondering if I can use linseed paint with a quick tidy up.

 

[Me!]

I suggest you give Bedec a call and ask them.
I've phoned them before with a question about MSP and they were very helpful.

 

[Cubist]

Insofar that you may, in the long term, choose to strip everything back to bare wood it would be wise I think to use a 'tidy up paint' that will be easy to remove when the time comes - no point making your future efforts harder than they need to be.

 

[88v8]

Linseed takes forever to dry. Days.... and it needs lots of thin coats.
There was once an enthusiasm for it on this forum, which evaporated in the face of experience.
If you search you will find old threads.

I still use it externally, specifically I use it for black on S and E facing, where black paint usually curls up and dies. That's all.

Internally, I would never use water base. Dries too fast, impossible to cut in. Oil, only oil.

Powder... old lead paint when sanded is powdery, so beware if that bothers you.

I would leave your woodwork until you can do it properly.

Ivor

 

[Feltwell]

I largely agree with Ivor. Linseed - I was a fan. now never use it. Loads of hassle to use, worth it if it worked as promised - but experience showed that it really lacked durability, on horizontal surfaces externally especially, plus it was bad for going grubby over time.

I'm quite happy with water based inside & out, don't like oil based, but then I also don't like gloss - and oil based is better for gloss.

I'm a total convert to MSP now, inside and out. As always though the end result is only as good as the preparation.

 

[TudorCottage]

Thanks for all the input.

I contacted Bedec and it seems Aqua Advanced is better suited to trim work. Reading between the lines it would seem either would do and the finish would be very similar. Like Ivor I favour an oil finish for wood, I’m never happy with the end result of water based. Looks ok from a distance but on close inspection shows too many imperfections. I did like using Dulux Diamond Satinwood in my last place, but my last place was 50 years old, not 500!!

The 3rd bedroom has a very small window which I stripped back to bare wood at the weekend and I’ve sourced a small tin of white linseed paint (contains driers apparently) and I’m going to give it a go. Only time will tell for longevity but at least I can see what finish is achieved and choose a way forward.

I don’t think the frames are old enough to have been painted before lead was banned.

 

[Feltwell]

Where was the paint from? If it was the "Linseed Paint Company" be aware I had paint that reacted really badly and ended up crazing across all of it's surface, it weathered terribly and all had to be stripped off within 2 years. Might have been a duff batch though.

 

[malcolm]

I'm still a big fan of linseed oil paint. It's breathable, doesn't peel, and I think the oil that soaks into the wood does some good. It has a proven track record of hundreds of years. My windows certainly wouldn't have lasted that long had they been painted in a waterproof oil paint. I get mine from Inglilby paints.

Linseed does have it's drawbacks. The long drying time makes the linseed paint season July and August only. It goes matt quickly so whites get dirty, and for blacks the pigment can come out with rain and stain your white limewash below. Dark colours need a coat of pure linseed oil on top to try to keep the pigment in.

Modern breathable water based paints should be good. It's the breathability of linseed that is it's strongest point and the paints mentioned above should do that.

 

[TudorCottage]

I got the paint from Ingilby’s. Seemed good value compared to some of the prices I’ve seen for linseed paint. The only thing I’ve used linseed oil on before was a . So I’m looking forward to the results on a window frame.

 

[Feltwell]

My driveway gates, done about 7 years ago in Holkham Linseed Paint - which is actually Allback, the Swedish stuff. Brand new softwood gates. primed with heated raw linseed oil, then 3 coats of paint, all as per manufacturer's instructions. They looked as bad as this within 4 years, horizontal surfaces far worse than vertical, the grey is the bare wood showing through. What you can't see in this picture is how grubby and discoloured they've become, and how faded they are from the original colour. They're not even in a particularly exposed spot.

I *must* get around to painting these in MSP before the start to rot! So far no problem, which may be the linseed, don't know.

 

[malcolm]

That's a really good photo. All of my linseed paint is on windows protected from rain by overhangs. Even then I have had some pigments running onto the limewash below. Looks like it's not a great paint to use when directly exposed to rain unless it is reapplied very regularly.

 

[Feltwell]

Yes, it doesn't flake or peel like your bog standard Dulux or similar would do - it just wears through on the horizontal surfaces.
Bear in mind that the Holkham/Allback stuff was sold on the promise of a coat of linseed oil was required at 7 years to restore the surface finish, then a single coat of paint at 14 years would be the first recoat. It was damn expensive as well. I wasn't impressed!

MSP is also expensive but seems to live up to the hype.

 

[88v8]

Used externally, linseed also wears on the vertical faces. My black garage doors had to be repainted this year because the original three coats had worn bare in places... five years.
On the other hand there was no cracking or flaking, it needed virtually no prep and three more coats went on quickly.
The paint in the tin was still viable, which was a bonus.

In contrast, the black Sikkens AZ on the frames has cracked in multiple places.

But as I said, external black is the only use I have for it now.

Ivor

 

[Feltwell]

It would be interesting Ivor to see how black MSP stood up compared to Sikkens and linseed.

 

[88v8]

It would be interesting Ivor to see how black MSP stood up compared to Sikkens and linseed.

I'm using their Barn Black on mock half-timbering, E facing but fairly shaded and N facing,and have used it on new feather edge as seen below, S & W facing three years ago.
No sign of it cracking or flaking as yet.

I put on three coats, each coat thinned about 30% with water. and I painted each piece before it was affixed including the end grain.

Although in this picture, the cedar barge boards were done in linseed, so far so good.



Ivor

 

[TudorCottage]

I’ve used Bedec barn paint in black on my cladding, facia and soffits and been very impressed with it. Much too early to judge for longevity but if it lasts will definitely be using it again.

I’ve got my window frame to this state, so the linseed paint is being trialed come what may.

 

[wobs]

Where was the paint from? If it was the "Linseed Paint Company" be aware I had paint that reacted really badly and ended up crazing across all of it's surface, it weathered terribly and all had to be stripped off within 2 years. Might have been a duff batch though.

Just found this thread.
I used Linseed Paint Company paint for much of our curent house outside. Mixed results. I got one window which crazed; and elswhere it struggled with knot sealer and came off on modern putty. On many surfaces it was fine, and more forgiving than the normal linseed paint, as was less likely to wrinkle, and dried a bit quicker (about 8hrs on a good day).

Last house I used Holkhams on the bay and front door, which I still occasionally go past, as its two streets down from us. It still looks good 10 years later, other than where I painted the masticed edge where the double glazing is, so i can forgive that.

I painted our new large hardwood at the back (Noth facing), and looks good. I can' see it lasting a long time.

Just had delivery of our kitchen window in softwood (couldn't get hardwood). Painted inside in regular Dulux, but external will be Bedec MSP.

In answer to a question I recently asked: Brewers now have a mixing service at their central depot, so you can order a wide range of colours in MSP from them:
https://www.brewers.co.uk/product/BN042208J

Came in just a few days as well.

 

[Feltwell]

One point on Bedec MSP - don't keep it hanging around too long in the tin.

I've had my second tin now where I've come back to use some more after a couple of years and when stirring it a rust hole has appeared in the bottom - seems to be corroding from the inside out. So now I decant leftovers I want to keep into a cheap plastic 1l or 2.5l paint kettle, and put clingfilm over the top prior to clicking the lid on - that works well.

Luckily in both cases the tin only leaked spots of paint onto the garage floor.