Beams, Ceilings, Distance???

[SolisGazer]

Just a quick question....what is the distance between the bottom of your beams and where the ceiling parts in between are? The reason I ask is that we have stripped back the beams (in my other post!) but the ceiling parts in between is artexed plasterboard...yuck...that is stuck to upstairs floor boards. We have removed all of this and we are going to replace this part of the ceiling as it seemed straight forward when I saw Sarah Beeny do it last week on "Help my House is Falling Down." The point is I think that the old plasterboard is set too high up so was wondering on other people's measurements and whether there is an "optimum" distance between the bottom of the beam and the ceiling.

Hope this question doesn't seem to odd and thanks in advance for your helpful replies!

 

[JoceAndChris]

I wouldn't imagine there could be any hard and fast rule - if you like it then it's right. Mine, in an attic bedroom where height is limited, vary between 4 and 7 inches depth. In a great lofty room with 12 or 14 feet of height you would expect far more prominent beams.

As their popularity is chiefly a result of modern imaginings of a past ceiling construction I reckon that the same freedom that has been applied to their inauthentic exposure can be used to assess desired colour and how much pokes out!

 

[MdB]

I would go and have a look at as many beamed ceilings as you can find and choose the depth that you like the look of.

If you are feeling keen, you can fill the gap between the plasterboard and the floor above with sound insulation but I'm not sure it works that well - it hasn't made a great deal of difference to us.

 

[SolisGazer]

Thanks...difficult to work out what it would have probably looked like when the property was first built. Good idea to see a few ceilings!

 

[Penners]

I think the answer to your question is "what do you like?" It's you that has to live with it, after all!

But, for what my opinion is worth, I think it depends on the massiveness of your ceiling beams. If they're big and wide, you can achieve a pleasing visual effect with very little beam protruding down below the ceiling height. If they're rather narrow, then you need a bit more beam showing, in order to avoid them looking spindley and insubstantial.

But keep practicalities in mind, too. If you want to minimise heat and sound transmission between the upstairs and downstairs rooms (in both directions) it would be advisable to incorporate some insulation material between the upstairs floor and the downstairs ceiling. And the thicker it is the more effective it will be. So this might persuade you to keep the ceiling boards as low as possible on the beams.

 

[robgil]

Dont listen to Sarah bloomin Beeny,really, dont even watch that show!
How deep are your joists?
Edit, one way is to fix lath to the floorboards in a ladder type shape then lime plaster it all.

 

[Johnboy]

Dont listen to Sarah bloomin Beeny,really, dont even watch that show!

Amen to that, talk about doom and gloom.....

 

[robgil]

Its on now, I'm not watching though.

 

[SolisGazer]

Dont listen to Sarah bloomin Beeny,really, dont even watch that show!
How deep are your joists?
Edit, one way is to fix lath to the floorboards in a ladder type shape then lime plaster it all.

The joists are six inches deep and are not bulky and square but trimmed/sliced back. Can you explain what you mean about fixing lath to the floorboard?

 

[robgil]

My joists are about the same size. Basically a small bit of lath has been nailed across from joist to joist then a long bit is nailed to these running along side the joists, like a ladder. This gives you something to fix the plaster to.
Like this,

 

[MdB]

Is it such a great idea to fix to the floorboards rather than to the joists with a gap? I would have thought movement of the floorboards would have led to cracking but I'm probably wrong.

 

[robgil]

Mine have been up there for 300 years with no gaps or cracking, my joists move about just as much as my boards.
I guess it could work in some places and not in others though.
I shall post some photos over the week end if I remember to.

 

[Pford75]

Sarah Beeny may rather over egg the doom and gloom, but she does play a helpful role in helping people understand that houses (especially old ones) require maintenance. She also has hands on experience of repairing and conserving many buildings (including old ones), so I am surprised more people don't listen to her (last nights couple patching their roof instead of reroofing 'saved' a couple of grand, but promptly spent it on a new kitchen. SB was making the point that roof and gutters are far more important (a sentiment we would all agree with).

I find the program melodramatic, but I don't have a problem with SB.

 

[Penners]

Is it such a great idea to fix to the floorboards rather than to the joists with a gap? I would have thought movement of the floorboards would have led to cracking but I'm probably wrong.

I completely agree, MdB. Unless there is no alternative, I would strongly argue against that method, for the reasons you have mentioned. It will also give minimal sound and thermal insulation.

It's much better to counterbatten the inside faces of the joists and fix your ceiling to those battens.

 

[Penners]

Its on now, I'm not watching though.

I've told you before, Rob: if you hunt around carefully on your TV set, you'll find something called an "off button". It's like a magic wand that switches on peace and quiet.

 

[AMc]

It's much better to counterbatten the inside faces of the joists and fix your ceiling to those battens.

IMHO It's worth creating a cavity between the boards upstairs and the ceiling below and stuffing it with wool insulation (sheep if you're rich, rock if you're not) as this will reduce sound transmission and heat loss as well as protect the ceiling from shocks in the floor above.
There is an argument that says heat lost from the ground floor just goes up to the first floor but personally I heat rooms to the temperature I want them - warmer for sitting rooms than bedrooms. Over heating the ground floor to pump heat upstairs isn't something I would do on purpose.
There is often significant heat loss at the end of the joists into solid walls and through the air gaps at thinner wall section where they rest - that heat just warms up the outdoors - but as you're beams are exposed then you can only reduce, not eliminate that.

On an aesthetic note I think you'll only work out where to put the ceiling in relation to the beams with a bit of trial and error. I would get a reasaonable size bit of white cardboard, cut it so you can jam it in place and have an experiment. My guess would be 1 or 1.5 times higher than the width of the exposed beam but only you will know. I would work out your levels with string across the room before you begin in case you have a tilt or bow or whatever which you do or don't want to follow with the infills.

 

[Penners]

IMHO It's worth creating a cavity between the boards upstairs and the ceiling below and stuffing it with wool insulation (sheep if you're rich, rock if you're not) as this will reduce sound transmission and heat loss as well as protect the ceiling from shocks in the floor above.

If you want to minimise heat and sound transmission between the upstairs and downstairs rooms (in both directions) it would be advisable to incorporate some insulation material between the upstairs floor and the downstairs ceiling. And the thicker it is the more effective it will be. So this might persuade you to keep the ceiling boards as low as possible on the beams.

Two minds with but a single thought!

 

[ian]

On an aesthetic note I think you'll only work out where to put the ceiling in relation to the beams with a bit of trial and error. I would get a reasaonable size bit of white cardboard, cut it so you can jam it in place and have an experiment.

The important role of cardboard is seriously underestimated for many tasks on this forum, in both 2 and 3 dimensions. I have used it to mock up woodburning stoves and canopies , windows, dining tables, stair parts, pelmets, to get an idea of scale in a room. It has better crush, shock absorbing and piercing resistance than a dust sheet and won't allow the finer dust to pass through the weave. It won't ruck up like a dust sheet and can be gaffer taped in place easier to avoid a dirt rim. It absorbs small quantities of "noxious" chemicals better than cloth or making puddles like plastic sheeting. It can make it easier to "skid"furniture that needs to be moved on uneven solid or boarded floors, especially if things need moving several times while decorating. It's environmentally friendly, recyclable, and can even be used to store things in a breathable environment. It needs to be up there with lime, linseed and oak in our hearts.

Back on topic, if you counterbatten, it has the useful property that it leaves a void into which wires - for lighting, telephone, aerials, home hub, plumbing, heating and all sorts of services can be run discretly along joists, but still leave easy access, with minor repair should you need to go back to them. Personally, if you have the depth of joists, I think an inch to inch and a half of exposed joist is not far off. 50mm rockwool does make a significant difference in sound transmission, not just in decibels, but also in the transmitted noise quality, the sound being muted and dull, rather that sharp, be it voices travelling up or footsteps sounding down.

 

[masochists-r-us]

What we did was to leave as much depth on show as we could, whilst ensuring there was a thick slab of acoustic insulation in to reduce sound transmission and heat losses. We went for the Rockwool R and plasterboard attached to wooden battens approach and we're very happy with the result. In another life we would have had lath and plaster ceilings, but on this occasion addressing noise concerns won the debate.

 

[middi]

The ideal scenario is to have the lower face of the floorboards exposed and the full depth of beam showing . As we don't live in an ideal world, and for various practical reasons, we now hide the boards from view mainly to stop woodworm dust dropping in our dinner plates and to " lighten up " the place.
As already mentioned in other posts, the choise is yours.
I favour the battens nailed to the side of the joists with approx. one inch of beam showing below the batten line, this will allow you to attach 9mm plasterboard, add a good depth of insulation in the void if you want to, also run any extra wiring you may need and all out of sight.

Middi