Approach to Conservation Officer

[Sonyaclegg]

Hi,

I have asked for a meeting with our CO to discuss French drains, Rainwater Systems, demolition of decaying outbuilding ( sadly beyond saving) and I'm happy with how to approach and discuss these points.

I want to discuss the treatment of the stone mullion windows with him and herein lies the problem. Our building lay derelict for 70 years and it suffered greatly. Most of the restoration is complete but the inside aspect of the stone windows are in very poor condition. We have missing stone pieces, stone that has been previously painted and cracks and dings galore. I will post picture when I finally figure it out. We bought the building as a repo. One of the rooms windows have been filled in and painted, with good effect and they look finished. All the other windows are in their natural damaged state. All I read advises me I must request LBC to paint stone or brickwork. I would like to for permission to repair and paint the inside of the windows. We have a lot of stone internally with 19 fireplaces, segmented arch inglenook fireplaces, stone arch door surrounds to most of the rooms. To paint the inside of the windows would make a huge difference aesthetically. To replace the stone mullions is beyond the budget. This would be thousands upon thousands. We not propose to paint any other stone. I think it would be too difficult to remove the old paint as the stone is prone to damage easily. I really want permission but I'm unsure how best to present this to the CO. any ideas?

 

[JoceAndChris]

Hi there Sonya, sounds like you're doing the right thing to really have a think about this and approach the CO. I've had some helpful conversation with stonemasons about my own problems and they've all said you can do two things with knackered stone - live with or replace. Filling is considered a conservation no no, and where I've seen it done looks pretty bad unless you paint over.

I think the filling before the painting is a lot worse than the painting - which could even be done in washable distemper, that's breathable and easy to remove. Would you be happy to distemper the mullions without prior filling? You could maybe try a tiny section and wash it off just to see?

Have you got curtains up? Curtains with a top treatment would cover up most of the sides and top.

Edit - just wanted to add that in the case of damaged stone, patching in a new section of stone is often an accepted conservation method - very tricky, if, like my stone steps, it's more damage than sound stone. But it might be an option for the worst chunks out of your windows. It's a more preserving approach than filling with Polyfiller and painting.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Thanks for the response. Sadly, the previous developer allowed terrible repairs to be done on some sections of the windows. Window treatment will certainly help as there are no curtains up at the moment and all I can see a Greg swathes of dirty stone damaged windows. I think perhaps the way forward is to point the stone and ask permission for distemper which will cover the existing patches of paint and improve the overall appearance. We have 47 sets of windows to sort out! Thanks for your thoughts

 

[middi]

If you have 19 fireplaces we must presume you are talking about a substantial building with lots of features with historical importance. I can also fully understand why you would want a preliminary meeting with a conservation officer for some guidance as to how to proceed with repairs etc. A succesfull meeting with a CO will all depend on how your CO is predisposed or interpret the need to see the building before you submit detailled description as to want you want repair, replace, remove or add to the building. It is his decision and your persuative powers if he/she decides to attend or discuss the matter.
Preferably a CO would like to see sketches and/or description of alteration from an architect ( one that specialises in listed buildings would be ideal) . You can submit information of changes yourself as long as it is made clear what you want to achieve and how.
FRom my experience most CO's can be very helpfull, if they have the time, on other occasions they have no intention to discuss with you as to how you should proceed or approach the repairs, this is why they would prefer that a knowledgeable architect be engaged to do this.( if repairs etc.. are very extensive)
Once detailled description of repairs etc.have been received by the CO. A site meeting is , usually, a matter of course.

all you can do is ask to speak to your CO, explain your dilemma ( in brief !!!) and see if a site meeting could be arranged at their convenience.

Good luck

Middi

 

[Flyfisher]

If the house had lain empty for 70 years, presumably the stone filling and painting that was done to some of the windows before you moved in was done at least 70 years ago. Was this before the house was listed or is it possible that the appropriate permissions were sought for this work back then?

Or perhaps such records are not kept for so long, in which case who would know when the filling and painting was done?

What does the official listing description for the house say about the windows? Does it say whether they are painted or not?

 

[Keithj]

I don't think any buildings were Listed until after WW2, so it seems this one was listed while it was unoccupied. Who knows what records are available at English Heritage or the CO's office!

If it's now in poor condition, I would think it's down to discussion between you and the CO as to what you can and cannot do. My experience with COs has been consistently positive (he made some excellent suggestions).

What grade listing is it? Ours is Grade 2, and the CO was not interested in what colour we painted the windows, as long as it was in keeping. They were, and are, white and softwood. We would have liked oak, but the existing ones weren't oak and total replacement was not an option. We had a craftsman joiner do the repairs and the CO was delighted. I painted them (lots of undercoats and top coats).

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for the response. Sadly, the previous developer allowed terrible repairs to be done on some sections of the windows. Window treatment will certainly help as there are no curtains up at the moment and all I can see a Greg swathes of dirty stone damaged windows. I think perhaps the way forward is to point the stone and ask permission for distemper which will cover the existing patches of paint and improve the overall appearance. We have 47 sets of windows to sort out! Thanks for your thoughts

That's a huge number of windows! Even just to curtain them...How I'd love that though! What a project, and the house sounds amazing - we'd love to see some pics. If you set up a free account at Photobucket you can upload the pictures from your phone or computer to there. When you click on your image once it's uploaded there, you'll see 4 boxes containing codes. The bottom one says IMG code. Click copy, and as you're typing your response here click paste. That same line of IMG code will appear, but after you've hit submit, when you go to review your post again, you'll see your image.

Being harsh, from the CO's point of view they might see the worn damaged stone as characterising the property. Most people coo over my terrible staircase. It's hard to live with though. You want to create a welcoming cared for atmosphere, I do understand. But once other soft furnishings and ornaments start going in, the damage becomes part of the atmosphere. Shiny new stone does not have the mood of the scarred stuff that tells the hard history of hundreds of years. Filled, painted stone is really giving the appearance of wood, personally, I wouldn't. Reversible distemper though, is a good compromise in my opinion. The CO might feel entirely differently.

I'd give Strippers of Sudbury a call, I can't believe they won't have a poultice that would soak the old paint off if you need to do that in places.

I'd also want to clean it, all of it, though I know many disagree with that. There are some good specialist products out there - Liberon do a stone cleaner for floors that's excellent, when combined with gentle abrasives like scrubbing brushes and toothbrushes.

I'd talk it all over with the CO and just hope they are sympathetic and interested. Good luck.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Sonya's other post tells us it's G2 * Keith
http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13289

 

[middi]

If The building is G2* the the CO will have a keen interest In getting involved at the earliest of stages. The reason for this is to ensure that the historical features of this building, which merited the *star* status, are correctly preserved.

First and foremost the listing status of the building must be carefully studied and a meeting with the CO must be arranged. It may also pay to have a conservation architect present at these early discussions in order to have a clear picture and no misunderstandings.

If the conservation/repairs of the listed building is very extensive, and at present beyond the financial means to effect the repairs, the best approach is to discuss the cheapest and most effective way to preserve listed features in a temporary way without these falling into further disrepair. For example, a CO will be quite content if you want to erect a temporary tin roof on a listed building as a temporary measure with a view to protect the existing and gradually effectuate repairs.

Middi

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Ok. Now have Photobucket. Only took 2 hrs!

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Ok. Now have Photobucket. Only took 2 hrs!
How do you upload from Photobucket on an IPad?

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Here are some pictures of our restoration project

 

[Sonyaclegg]

More pics

 

[Sonyaclegg]

More pics

 

[Sonyaclegg]

And another

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Here are some pictures of our restoration project

Oh. My. Goodness!!!
That is quite a long way out of our usual league. I don't immediately recognise it, but presumably it's a fairly well-recorded house? In which case, I would spend a lot of time searching out those earlier records before doing anything at all. I was going to say, having read through the earlier part of the thread, that it was not uncommon for stone mullions to be painted, internally, but with a house of that scale I'm not so sure.

 

[middi]

I agree with Gareth, this appears to be the sort of building where it's history could be traced to the reason for its existance, their owners and life's history. The preservation of this type of building is not just dealing with " bricks and mortar" archirecture, it should also detail the " lifestyles" of the occupants of bygone eras. A vey expensive building to erect for any period.
Definetely the sort of building that could be ruined with any form of short cut repairs. A lot of research in it's history is required before repairs and conservation by using skilled ( and expensive !!!) tradesmen is considered. I dont think your CO will object to a site visit considering the scale and inportance of the building.
Well, it makes a change from our average contributors questions to the forum asking what to do with a bad quarry tile in their kitchen etc.

Good luck

Middi

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh my goodness Sonya! What a wonderful building! A huge well done to you for taking it on, and what a great privilege to live in such an important and lovely example of our built heritage. It's absolutely splendid. I completely agree with middi and Gareth ( two of our most experienced contributors on this forum) that finding out as much as possible about the history of the house and how it's looked through the ages is a good start.

I love the stone work, damage and all. If I couldn't pay for sensitive and professional restoration, with a conservation architect and a stonemason who'd worked at Grade 1 level, then I wouldn't poke about with it or paint it. The house needs to be watertight, above all ( is it?), and it needs living in.

You've got a huge journey ahead of you with this house, and I hope your CO is there to help and support you. We certainly are.

Looks like you got your piccies up by means of attachments - well done. The iPad is tricky for Photobucket, you need the Photobucket ap I think. I don't have it so can't comment on how it works. But when you go to Photobucket on an iPad, you hover the pointer over your image and 4 boxes of code appear. The bottom box is the IMG code, which on a laptop you'd copy and paste here. But iPad won't allow you to click copy. You could either write down the code carefully, not missing out any of the colons or forward slashes, and use your iPad to type that code in the response box here. Or you could copy and paste the whole address ( in the address bar) of your photo stream, then we could look at all your house pics on there - maybe not a great solution if you'd like to use the account for holiday snaps, etc.

Anyway I'm glad you found a way as the pictures are fascinating.

 

[andrew gayton]

And.

As the building is grade II*, english heritage will need to be kept in the loop.

They do like to be involved at the informal stage of the LBC process........

 

[Jellyfire]

Beautiful house Sonya, I'm sure we'd all love to see more of it If you get chance to take more pics. Reaffirming what the others have said, given its stature I'm sure you're CO would be more than happy to make a site visit and get involved in terms of advice