Anyone heard of these damp proofing co's?

[Flyfisher]

Same with electrical work where householders are often frightened into changing their consumer units (fuseboxes) for completely bogus reasons when their existing unit is fine for the purpose it was installed for.

I take your general point but, to be fair, many things were 'fine for the purpose it was installed for' at the time, but have been genuinely superseded by something better. I'm far happier now that I've replaced our old consumer units with modern ones containing MCBs and RCDs because they are undeniably safer than the old ones . . . . and that's without even considering why all the old candles and oil lamps were done away with in favour of this new-fangled electrickery in the first place. :wink:

Oh how I miss the thrill of walking across our wooden floor and feeling a tingle in my bare feet because of a combination of perished rubber wiring inside underfloor metal conduit, damp wood from lack of ventilation and a fusebox that happily allowed current to leak to earth with impunity. Ah, the good old days.

These things have to be decided on the specific merits of the case - appropriate products and materials for the appropriate application.

 

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

Has anyone ever used or heard reports of these damp proofing companies?

http://www.petercox.com

The guy from that Heritage House website (who I tend to think knows what he's talking about) warns against Peter Cox quite often in his YouTube clips - there's one at the bottom of this page:
http://www.heritage-house.org/peter-cox-and-the-dry-house.html

He also seems to disprove any other damp proof co. he comes across - lots of videos about it on his twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/PeteWard7


It's taken me a long while to come round to this way of thinking. You would like to believe that if even your mortgage company is insisting on a damp course, it can't be a scam, and must be absolutely necessary. Have the mortgage companies been duped too, or are they in on it? Now I've started to see the truth I'm staggered at the scale of this racket, with the worst part being not so much the money, as people being forced into wrecking their perfectly good houses.

 

[LadyArowana]

Have the mortgage companies been duped too, ..........

Given their job is lending money to people to buy property and there was a subprime mortgage crisis because they couldn't even get that right, I feel it might be overly optimistic to expect them to know anything about damp remedies for old houses

 

[Lindyboo]

I’ve been checking out the various links provided in this thread – many thanks for them, by the way – and now feel rather discouraged. In effect, the replacement via insurance of carpets etc damaged by the flood can’t commence until the damp issue is resolved, so it seems inevitable that their recommended bods will want to shove me down the road of injections DPCs etc and such measures may not resolve the issue anyway. (That said, the Peter Cox brigade haven’t been in touch yet – a bit slack, methinks, when they’ve a fish waiting for the hook).

Looking at what’s been posted in this thread and elsewhere online it certainly seems as though there’s either collusion between mortgage lenders and DP companies, or an apathy by the former to test the facts put forward by the latter. The punter pays the price, inevitably.

I’m feeling extra grumpy today in any case because the combi-boiler has broken down AGAIN – fourth time since installation in April last year.

 

[Matt Green]

Has anyone ever used or heard reports of these damp proofing companies?

http://www.petercox.com

Certainly, I used to work for them. They operate a commissioned sales business model and have been in business for a very long time.

Thank you Matt. Does that mean they give advice and provide treatments solely on the basis of making commission?

Yes, that is correct. Your mortgage company is suggesting that you seek advice from a commissioned salesman.

Just out of interest, do these companies know that the whole 'rising damp' thing is controversial at best, and basically a complete myth and thus a con at worst? Or is it a case of being honestly misguided?

By their definition rising damp = capillary action. Therefore there are preventing water moving through your walls that would spoil decorations. Capillary action is not a myth, but neither is it a cause (that's the controversial part). Remove the cause and there is no need for the treatment as capillary action will not occur if the building is functioning as intended. Rising damp without a cause is the myth. The morally debatable part is in the testing wherein they test using one method (resistance meter) and confirm with a different one (calcium carbide meter or oven dry core drilling). Your wall may not actually be damp Lindyboo, just giving a high resistance reading. It breaks down as this:

What is being guaranteed: the wall will be found to have less than 5% moisture content when tested using an invasive technique.

What the client is expecting to be guaranteed: decorations will not spoil and the wall will not by found to have a high resistance reading on survey.

There are some excellent surveyors working for these companies that have seen a lot of houses, unfortunately they are given a financial incentive to think of solutions in terms of a product portfolio.

 

[Lindyboo]

Matt – interested to read that our house may not be ‘damp’, but that definition of course is the central issue for me and many others, especially when insurance/mortgages get involved. That we have wet/damp areas is not disputed – after the flood and while the drying equipment was installed there was a visible tide mark up many of the walls and into the concrete floors for about a foot. These are subsiding in at least one room since the fans etc were removed. It is presumably this spoiling which gives the high readings and scares the homeowner into applying costly and inappropriate measures.

We were aware from when the re-wiring was done in 2008 that one internal wall was actually sodden – the brick was soft enough to scoop out with a spoon at a height of about a metre. We felt however that this may have been due to a leaking shower tray in the adjoining room (we remain unsure but it seemed too much of a coincidence). Many of the internal walls here have been cement rendered long ago which presumably hasn’t helped.

I can see that there’s a lot of unrest online about the validity of damp proofing, but has anyone ever formed an organization or lobbied to get action on DP co’s and investigate the suspicious link between the industry and lenders?

 

[Lime]

I’m feeling extra grumpy today in any case because the combi-boiler has broken down AGAIN – fourth time since installation in April last year.

Ah! Yes another modern day scam where householders are sold the idea they are saving the planet by purchasing a condensing combi-boiler urged on by government funds to meet their Kyoto commitment.
Once upon a time boilers were simple devices that reliably heated water year after year.
Yes they were relatively inefficient but that was because no investment had been made on better design (patents often precluding innovation) while keeping the basic solid structure of the boiler.

Innovation also has its drawbacks when it is installed by plumbers who have little understanding of hydrostatics or electrical circuits.
The result of that is the more complicated devices are likely to be replaced because of the lack of understanding or not installed in the first place because of their complexity.

Then came the combi boiler that separated the two household systems of hot water and heating internally all combined with the pre-occupation of minimising materials used in manufacture.
The inevitable consequence of that was the combi-boiler was much less reliable because the complexity had increased many-fold and materials had been reduced to a point where failure was expected rather than built for a very long life.
Plumbers had to take courses from each manufacturer to enable them to service their boilers which put up the price of servicing considerable.
Parts began to be updated/improved in such a way that one was not interchangeable or compatible with another.
The spare parts industry grew.
We must all remember the next major change that came along?
The condensing combi boiler where efficiency was supposedly king and we'd all be doing our bit to save the planet.
The government threw our money into it pleading and cajoling all those people with a working boiler to rip it out and become green.
Does anyone know of anybody with a condensing boiler that has not had trouble with it shortly after it was installed?
What about all those people who lost their heating because the condensate pipe froze?
(That was poor installation, nothing to do with the boiler.)
From my experience of plumbers their skills fall far short of understanding anything like what is required to install a condensing boiler properly let alone service it without causing further damage.

Mind you I don't think manufacturers want their boilers serviced going by how much their spares cost.
I'm one of those odd-balls who has a gas multipoint boiler for hot water.
Their design has not change radically for the last 50 years.
However costs of parts rise every month.
8 years ago I replaced the multipoint for just less than £300.
It has given good service all that time supplying a kitchen with two sinks together with a two bathrooms with two baths and shower.
A slight leak has developed in the water valve.
The cost of a new water valve? £288 + depending where you look.
The cost of a new complete and identical multipoint boiler is £350 with free delivery.
It is a no brainer isn't it?

 

[xanthe]

Actually, we have condensing boilers - Worcester Bosch Greenstar something - both in our own house and in a rental property. One was installed in 2006 and one in 2009. Both tested every year, and haven't had a single problem or needed anything replacing with either (yet). Did we just get lucky?

Lindyboo - looking at the Heritage House site, he and his associates seem to be quite successful in persuading insurance companies that dpcs aren't needed.
Also looks like it takes a heck of a long time for walls to dry out when they are damp depending on what they are made of. Very sorry for all the flood issues, I can only imagine how awful it must be dealing with that.

 

[plasticpigeon]

When damp proof companies start trying to sell injection damp proofing to owners of houses which have a damp proof course, the sensible person surely smells a rat. My house has a slate damp proof course, and i would trust that over an injected one any day but the mortgage company still asked for injection to be done, even though there weere no visible signs of damp in that area. Of course I objected and found a way out of that treatment.

Another area of my house was damp. I still have no idea why. It was an internal dividing brick wall, built on earth with no damp proof course. The plaster was definitely damp to the touch and disintegrating. However the bricks below floor board level in the crawl space were dry! This doesn't sound like rising damp to me. I think the most likely expanation was that there was something hygroscopic in the plaster, but how did any hygroscopic salts get into the plaster? Perhaps by capillary action (rising damp) as I can see no other method. Although the plaster was lime, there was some kind of hardboard panelling over the top, and the plaster was painted with gloss paint. I took a risk and lime plastered and painted with clay paint. For all I know there may be some water rising up the wall due to capillary action, but it doesn't look or feel damp any more, which may be because the water can evaporate out of the wall, or it could be that someone spilled sometyhing on that area of wall that was hygroscopic, which was removed along with the old plaster. I suppose I will never know the cause of the damp, or why it is no longer damp, but I know I don't trust those salespeople.

 

[Lindyboo]

I notice PPUK endorses LaPlaya property insurance. Anyone use this?

 

[TheRoost]

Lindyboo - looking at the Heritage House site, he and his associates seem to be quite successful in persuading insurance companies that dpcs are needed.
Also looks like it takes a heck of a long time for walls to dry out when they are damp depending on what they are made of. Very sorry for all the flood issues, I can only imagine how awful it must be dealing with that.

Did you mean ' dpcs aren't needed ' ?

good website Heritage house, since finding the site a while back I am constantly noticing weirdly applied dpcs in brickwork when I'm out walking, some a metre high, some running vertically, I really should take some pictures!

 

[xanthe]

Crumbs, yes... AREN'T...

 

[Zebra]

Have the mortgage companies been duped too, or are they in on it?

Probably rather a case of going along with it "to be on the safe side". That and not being interested enough in the specifics to actually look into the pros and cons.
Similarly, as an electrician, we tell people that their old rewireable fuseboards are "serviceable but not compliant with current regulations" and our customers - mostly letting agents and property management companies - have them updated "to be on the safe side" - ie so that they are not seen to be liable for any neglect. We don't dupe anyone into anything, but people do tend to want the latest new up-to-date thing.
Agree on boilers though. And same with cars!

 

[plasticpigeon]

Some tradespeople try and dupe their customers. The majority of trades people I have encounterted have been very keen to tell me what I want and need.

 

[TheRoost]

I wouldn't be surprised if RIC Surveyors, Lenders, Insurers and the damp proofing companies are all in on it together, with referrals and commission to be made.

 

[MatthewC]

Does anyone know of anybody with a condensing boiler that has not had trouble with it shortly after it was installed?

OK, I'll take the risk and say that my condensing combi boiler has worked perfectly since installed in May 2011. It's an Ideal Logic Combi 30 which I have serviced each year by the chap who installed it (who I trust as he is well known in this small town and has a reputation to protect). If it now fails tomorrow "by coincidence" I'll let you know!
Matthew

 

[tobydog]

Our Firebird combi was installed in 2010 and is now undergoing palliative care. Our plumber just said that we should nurse it through until the end which is likely to be February knowing our luck :roll: . It is leaking is many areas and dropping pressure constantly. So long as I keep topping it up, it keeps going. The mistake made appears to be that the original installer (employed by the extension building contractor) didn't fit a proper water softener and we live in a very hard water area. That seems to be the killer of these things. My previous house in the same area had a conventional Mison boiler that was 20 years old and faultless with the only weak link being the availability of spare parts. I'm sure my carbon footprint was that much worse.

 

[Lindyboo]

Well, I’ve stopped scowling at our boiler following yesterday’s breakdown. Boiler was completely dead – no lights which suggested power supply issue. Checked what I could (fuse/trip) but nothing obvious. That internet said a dodgy on/off switch is a known problem with the model. We wisely have a service contract with a local company (not the installers who turned out to be cowboys) and they are that rare thing these days – reliable.

Called them out and they went the extra to squeeze me in. Tired old fella turned up at 5pm (poor soul with a bad back and ruined knees) and spent ages on our outdoor boiler in the cold and dark. Lot of tutting and sighing from him and I thought, uh oh, sounds expensive and difficult.

Imagine my relief, dear reader, when he found the problem. A rodent had eaten through the wire and severed the neutral. He repaired it and went on his way, just like International Rescue. Bless. And phew!

 

[Lindyboo]

Tomorrow morning the Peter Cox brigade will descend upon us. I’m assuming that there’ll be much prodding of damp meters here and there and much tutting and sighing from the assessor, culminating in a recommendation for chemical DPC. What do you reckon?

 

[Matt Green]

As it is post-flood they might be inclined to go for a tanking/drainage solution using Delta membrane or Sika render. Hygroscopic testing of core samples to determine if the water in the walls is from the flooding or from the ground would be ideal but unlikely. If it were me I knew there was history of flooding and insurers were involved I would have ruled out DPCs quite firmly to differentiate myself from any other companies involved and gone in with a robust spec for tanking the affected rooms. It's mid-month so I've got an eye on my monthly sales target (oh yes...) but November and December are very slow months for building work so I would have been inclined to risk a bigger spec job with a longer time frame over a cheap quote.