Another pathetic question, I'm afraid

[Nemesis]

I don't have gas so have no idea what the real deal is.

NT seems to know though... as possibly did Manks when he posted in that other thread.

I think we have had other posts in the past about this too. It seems all you have to do is be 'competent' to DIY, not Corgi registered.

This has further info:

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/gas_safety.htm

On 7th May 2002 a plumber was jailed for installing a gas appliance because he was not CORGI registered and competent. You can read about this by following a link at the bottom of these instructions.

The gas regulations in this Country require the installer of any gas appliances or fittings to be competent and to do so with safety. The Health and Safety Executive, who control such things, have the power to enforce regulations against a diy installer if it can prove the installation was carried out in an unsafe way. This is not hard in the event of an accident !!

To fit appliances etc for others, even friends, you must be CORGI registered. To do this for yourself require that you do so in a competent and safe way.

Competent in this sense does not just mean you can join pipes together. You have to know how to disconnect from the meter, test the system before and after installation, how to make sure the pipes are free from debris, how to check proper earth bonding, how to install isolation valves and many more things besides.

Most manufacturers installation instructions will insist a registered installer carries out the work. If you do it, the guarantee may not be valid and in most cases, your home insurance may not be valid either.

We will not pretend that professional installation is cheap, but please consider ALL the consequences of a diy installation.

Please see the Health and Safety Executive guidelines at http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/index.htm

HSE Gas Safety Advice Line 0800 300 363
Transco operates the national freephone 24-hour gas emergency service - 0800 111 999. Anyone who thinks they smell gas, or is worried about gas safety, can call this number free of charge, any time of the day or night.

A Transco engineer will be sent to make the situation safe. There is no charge for this emergency visit.

A link to a press release by the Health and Safety Executive is below.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2002/e02085.htm

 

[alice]

The previous owner of my terrace, a neighbor of my mother's, bought the house with the intention of hiving off a rear-facing two-room wing and reselling the rest of the house. The wing was for his aged mother-in-law and the rest of the house I bought.

Before he put the house up for sale, he had to re-route and split the gas lines and the first thing he did was dig up the old lines, where he promptly put his shovel right through the ancient gas line, causing a major gas break and prompting the interest of the police, fire dept and just about everyone else in the neighborhood.

I can still remember meeting while I was out walking. He was running up the street like a bat out of hell, asking (yelling, really) if I had a cell phone, as he had to call the gas company before he blew the neighborhood up. I didn't have a phone, so he went on, and, since I'm still here, got it all sorted out and didn't manage to blow us all to Kingdom Come.

He is an experienced rehabber who had complete brought back a listed terrace to a pristine, historically correct condition and although he didn't do much work on my building, I trust the quality of the construction he did to split the houses... but he said that he won't do gas line work anymore, he'll hire it out. And, no, from what he said, he didn't need any special permits or training to do the work as it was on his own property.

alice

 

[CHRIS]

Alice

He obviously was not an experienced "rehabber" (what ever that is) as digging near any service requires care and attention, you should find the stop valve or stop cock BEFORE digging not until it goes wrong. You only make that mistake once.

 

[Nemesis]

'Pristine and historically correct'... well, it's not how experienced conservationists do it really, either.

 

[Penners]

blow yourself, and maybe half the neighbourhood, to smithereens?

What is a smithereen, anyway? I'm not sure I've ever seen one. But maybe that's a good thing.

 

[Moo]

'Pristine and historically correct'... well, it's not how experienced conservationists do it really, either.

Sorry, Nemesis - I don't understand. Could you explain how he should have done it?

 

[Nemesis]

I'm very surprised you don't understand Moo as it's been discussed here many times. Given that you live in a listed property I'm puzzled you aren't aware of this aspect of conservation.

Quality changes over time should be respected, not all stripped back to one period in time, speculative restoration avoided, the patina of age and some of the warts and wobbles retained as they add to the interest and character of a historic building. So if pristine means removing some of that age and character it's possibly not a good thing. Historically correct - that too depends on a number of factors, but stripping back all to a particular date isn't usually what's recommended.

Janet Collins 'Old House Care and Repair' as available from the publications part of this site is a good read as a starter.

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/1873394616.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Annex C of PPG 15 has some general guidance too:

http://www.communities.gov.uk/pub/311/PlanningPolicyGuidance15Planningandthehistoricenvironment_id1162311.pdf

 

[skier-hughes]

Can it not be pristine and historically correct to each period in which it was built?

 

[Nemesis]

Well - it all depends on the skill and expertise really of those involved in the conservation?

But once all sense of age and passage of time is gone ibuildings can end up with so much 'special interest' removed, every wart and wobble gone and the word 'pristine' can mean so many things.

In the case of the gas pipe man, just lucky anything is left at all, could have been a very scraped back project indeed!

I think the word 'venerable' in the SPAB manifesto is one worth remembering:

http://www.spab.org.uk/html/what-is-spab/the-manifesto/

Yes ideas have moved on but it's still a very worthwhile thing to re-read every now and again.

As indeed is:

http://www.spab.org.uk/html/what-is-spab/spabs-purpose/


'old buildings cannot be preserved by making them new...'

Sadly, in Moscow and many another place at this time that's exactly what is happening - demolition of the existing and poor replicas put in place.

 

[Penners]

old buildings cannot be preserved by making them new.

None of us would want to see existing, sound historic fabric replaced with modern materials, just for the sake of doing it. (At least, I assume we all agree on that, otherwise we're on the wrong forum.)

But your assertion could imply that nothing in a historic building should ever be replaced with new. And that's clearly impractical.

Stuff wears out, gets damaged, deteriorates and rots away. And there comes a day when that stuff cannot be rescued. I suggest that, when that day comes, the best thing to do for the sake of the building is to replace the deteriorated stuff with brand new (but identical).

It's the old story of grandad's treasured old garden spade. It's had three new handles and two new blades, but it's still going strong.

 

[Nemesis]

Yes, like for like and also repair not replace unless really required. As in Annexe C of PPG 15 which I think I posted the link to above.

But there's a heap of stuff written about conservation of historic buildings which anyone interested can delve further.

 

[Flyfisher]

blow yourself, and maybe half the neighbourhood, to smithereens?

What is a smithereen, anyway? I'm not sure I've ever seen one. But maybe that's a good thing.

Well, according to Google, they are a rock band (aka a popular beat combo) from New Jersey, USA. I've not seen them either so can't comment on whether that's a good thing not to have done so. Oh, there's another definition as well, something about small fragments . . .

Back on topic, I think the spade analogy is a very good one. No materials are going to last forever so perhaps the current 'best practice' is just a consequence of the times we live in and may have to change as time marches on.

I don't know how long a timber-frame building (say) kept in good repair is likely to last, but surely the oak is going to need replacement at some stage. OK, not in our lifetimes but wind the clock forward a thousand years or more and it's conceivable that such buildings - or even entire towns like Lavenham, for example, will have to resemble Penners' spade if they are still to exist at all - i.e. a faithful facsimile but no original fabric.

 

[Penners]

I don't know how long a timber-frame building (say) kept in good repair is likely to last

With the emphasis on your "good repair" caveat, I should imagine that any building can last indefinitely.

We are perhaps fortunate that, today, we still have lots of opportunities to see the original fabric of many really ancient buildings, largely unaffected by the Grandad's Spade Syndrome.

But in centuries, even millennia, to come those buildings that have been properly maintained and repaired should still be around to be marvelled at, plus new ones that today are still young or even unbuilt.

Needless to say, Prescott Apartments are specifically excluded from the above.

 

[alice]

When I said "pristine" I mean "carefully and thoughtfully as possible" not "shiny and new"- maybe I should have used another word. I think my neighbor is as good a rehabber as is possible outside of a museum. He researches every detail, tries to buy salvaged whenever possible, hires out when he feels he's out of his depth (obviously, he overreached himself with the gas line!) because he's more concerned with what's well done than with what's cheap.

The terrace he lives in was built on the seafront about 1850 and is historically significant for the area, but have been badly mangled over the years. Almost all have been turned into bedsits and council flats and stripped of every interesting architectural detail. I think it's admirable that people like him are taking these tenements and trying their best to restore and rehab them.

But in the end, he lives in the house and he's not a 19th century re-enactor. The house has indoor toilets, a dishwasher, and , I'm sure, the taint of PVC in there somewhere.

alice